Memo to MMFA; Teacher's unions are "teachers themselves".

He didn't say that he's letting the teachers decide. He said he'd work with the unions to DEVELOP A SYSTEM to determine merit pay. In case you don't understand English, thats NOT the same thing.

Perhaps you need the English lesson.  My beef is with the word parsing done by MMFA, again.  Sowell said "measured by teachers themselves" and Obama said he would work with teachers unions to develop a system for merit pay.  That is a hair-splitting difference, and not misinformation by Sowell at all.

So the unions should have no say then. I see.

Thats not hair splitting. Devloping a system is completely different than "measured by the Teachers themselves". There will be a set of rules that will determine what is fair and what is not. It will be detemined by a number of parties, Teachers unions being one of them. The statement "measured by the teachers themselves" is NOT correct. His statement sounds like teachers will be getting together and going, hmmm... thirty grand sound good to me. Thats NOT what will be happening, hence, it's a lie. 

It makes it sound like he will let the teachers determine their pay, i.e. self-regulation.  Self-regulation is like letting the inmates run the asylum.  I mean, who would be stupid enough to allow industry to regulate themselves--

 

--geez, nevermind.

allowing the union to set standards is not very far removed form letting the teachers, its still labor measuring labor, not mgmt measuring labor

Doesn't say they do or will set standards. They're giving input, they teach. Is there some good reason to exclude them? Some reason to doubt their professionalism.

Yes rrastro..... please be so kind as to answer eweston's question... I'd like to know how you came to say what you said?

FYI: Even the management (administrators) are teachers themselves... they just happen to work in the district offices instead of the schools!

So in order for the teachers to be properly evaluated it seems it could not come from them either..... and

You can listen to Obama's words when he said he would work WITH the Teachers' Unions (to which I will be a part of in about a year and a half) to find a decent way to properly evaluate teachers!

This guy Thomas Sowell IS/WAS lying when he wrote this column... because it misrepresented Obama's stance on the issue!

And how would allowing teachers to determine their own merit pay be any different from how executives of (failing) corporations determine their own bonuses parachute packages?

I notice O'bama didn't mention that he would also seek input from School Boards or Concerned Citizen Groups, therefore "teachers unions" = teachers.

Nor did he say that he would exclude input from those groups. In fact he said that the districts themselves would design the programs. And by districts I believe he means school boards in consultation with concerned citizens.

administratorsmay have been teachers but are no longer. Labor should not have a say in how merit is measured considering all the other factors they manage.

Further what about the public and the school boards? Will Obama work with the union to get teachers who lack results fired? Will teachers quit whining about being treated like professionals when they act like the lowest unskilled labor?

Will you miss the point and present an unsupported diatribe against a group you know little of but hate dearly?

Here is the statement on this from the Obama website:  "Obama and Biden will promote new and innovative ways to increase teacher pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them. Districts will be able to design programs that reward accomplished educators who serve as a mentor to new teachers with a salary increase. Districts can reward teachers who work in underserved places like rural areas and inner cities. And if teachers consistently excel in the classroom, that work can be valued and rewarded as well."  (Italics mine)

'With' is not the same as 'by'.  Who will be working with the teachers?  Their school districts, which would certainly include school boards and concerned citizens groups (if anyone knows of a way to exclude concerned citizens, they have certainly kept it a secret from beleaguered school principles). 

The thing one can read between the lines here is not that Obama takes the teeth out of the merit pay idea, but rather that he recognizes that a merit pay system imposed by fiat without input from the professionals being evaluated will be DOA.  There is nothing unusual or suspicious in this.  After all, we are constantly reminded by Republicans that industry regulators must work in cooperation with the industries they regulate, since industry representatives have knowledge regulators cannot do without.

Sowell's real problem is that he has little respect for public education or public school teachers.  He would like to indulge in the fantasy that some hard-headed administrators can make everything alright by imposing their will on teachers, like a shift manager at a burger joint, cracking the whip over those who are not scurrying around fast enough, and giving all the overtime to his pets asskissers.  This works well enough if you are delivering fast food, but would you want your children to spend the day with disgruntled wage slaves in paper hats?

Thomas Sowell - a trhoroughly useless excuse for a human being.

Shorter version

Republican1:  "Unions are evil and are destroying America!"

Republican2:  "Why do the unions hate us?  They're in the tank for the Democrats all the time!"

Take 2

Republican1:  "Teachers are corrupt and incompetent and are destroying America's children and future!"

Republican2:  "Why do the teacher's unions hate us?  They're in the tank for the Democrats all the time!"

Craftily put, MoonbatYouBet.  You have captured the two sides of the Republican mouth brilliantly.

the point is that teachers will not evaluate or plan the evaluation of teachers yet the union is unrelaible in creating objective standards.

no daiatribe and the argument that only teachers can talk about teachers is a hot steaming pile

media matters point is mistaken of course

Oops, rrastro, you didn't finish your sentence.  "A hot steaming pile"... of what? 

I wasnt aware that medai matters stopped censoring certain words for animal waste