I knew this would happen. By the time the second debate rolls around the MSM will be wondering if Obama will be able to improve on his unimpressive first debat performance. By the time of the final debate the first debate will be judged as disastrous for Obama. Happens every time.

It's Deja Vu all over again.  I remember my jaw hitting the floor when the pundits declared President Numbnuts the winner of all his debates.

Nerzog: "I remember my jaw hitting the floor when the pundits declared President Numbnuts the winner of all his debates."

Oh, really? When was that?

2000 & 2004.

Back then the media types spewed that Bush won, Kerry lost and all they talked about was how Dan Rather was trying to overthrow a sitting President. Cons are amazing.

It's obvious that after every evening where the MSNBC guys praise the dems, a memo comes down from top management telling them to simmer it down. So the next day, they ignore everything that happened the day before, and suddenly go out of their way to favor the repubs with a bit of over-sensitivity.

It's been really blatant this week-- Matthews will criticize the repubs over the bailout, and the next day he's giving them credit for their highmindedness!

This pattern is obvious-- there is absolutely no other excuse for the ambitious Todd to ignore the polling evidence that favored Obama.

Todd did not provide any evidence to support his assertion that Obama "was judged as not winning that debate."

Au contrare', I distinctly heard Bill O'Reilly, from The O'Reilly Factor, at the outset of his esteemed program this past Monday, during the edge-of-your-seat "Talking Points"  segment (when he speaks from the 3rd person, so cute)........anyway, he unequivocally stated that John McCain won the debate, no spin.

So there.

Well Tommy I didn't see O'Reilly say this, but you're a fair guy so I'll take your word for it...OOPS I'm not supposed to say that...dopeyFunnymanpants & his sidekick idiotGov will accuse me of kissing your behind ;-)

BTW, I left you a post on the Mika thread.

Tommy I didn't see the debate, & after hearing everybody & their uncle tell me who won & who lost, truth is, I still don't know :-O

Thanks J, I know, we are only allowed to post a comment out of the goodness of the more liberal posters here, and we need to stay in our respective corners and not gang up on anyone, blah blah those darn rules.  :)

As for the debate, I didn't see the whole thing either, just bits and pieces......I was more impressed with Obama, but as to who won it, that is in the eye of the beholder, and everyone has an opinion, so be it.

Get a room, you two! ;)

Well we are trying.  Damn Ramada was full, and the Super 8 doesn't have room service, so you tell us, what are we to do?

Holiday Inn, Tommy! Not only do they have room service, but next time the col. asks you for a source, you can say "I don't have one, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night."!

Snoop, I wasn't asking for a source (below), I was acknowledging BilldO as a source. And I don't know how much more "room service" Jeter's gonna need if he's got Tommy there. (tee hee)

Sorry to disappoint you guys, I'm gonna have to cancel those Holiday Inn plans with Tommy. I'm staying in NYC at the Waldorf with my very beautiful special lady.

You might know her Colonel ;-)

Of course, I have very regular business dealings with Minnie Pearl. The chicken industry is pretty close-knit.

Minnie is dead. Besides she always liked you best...Got me a new one :-)

An unscientific Fox News poll had McCain winning the debate,

FOX is right-leaning, and it's an unscientific poll.  What's it supposed to mean?

It means zip, zilch, zero.

Can't imagine what the point was?

I bet Shoes wishes he hadn't posted that ;-)

That would imply he had a sense of shame.  Obviously that isn't a factor for some people around here.

It was the same poll that said the earth is flat and "here there be dragons".

Here's another unscientific Fox poll, shoes.

"we are only allowed to post a comment out of the goodness of the more liberal posters here, and we need to stay in our respective corners and not gang up on anyone, blah blah those darn rules."

Typical emotional conservative response.

Typical pete592 response.

I have seen "typical emotional liberal response" far too many times for it to go unanswered and unmocked.  It will remain a mockery until there is an admission that emotional responses are not limited to liberals.  Take your delicate conservative sensibilities elsewhere if you don't like it.

Pete, You are wound way too tight sometimes.

MM : "Chuck Todd said ..."

Is this the same Chuck Todd that said today that everything is going Obama?

"Conservative misinformation"? Hardly.

So because Obama clearly has the momentum right now, that means that Todd is biased for saying so?  And therefore that somehow reflects on this item where he ignores poll results favorable to Obama?

I wonder why he wouldn't note the consensus that Obama won the debate, since he's supposedly biased towards him.  That's very strange.

BTW, love this latest electoral map. Getting bluer every day!

Don't count on NW Ohio.  I drove extensively through several counties the other day, and the McCain/Palin signs outnumbered the Obama signs about 200-1.  But then again, very few people live in this area.

Pete, from Glenn Greenwald today:

"The Right in this country -- meaning the faction that followed George Bush for the last eight years -- long ago ceased being a movement of political ideas and is driven by two, and only two, extreme emotions: (1) intense, aggressive rage towards their revolving door of enemies, and (2) bottomless self-pity over how unfairly they're being treated."

Jeter, what part of "Bill O'Reilly said McCain won" are you having trouble with?

And tell those BoSux to cut it out.

Colonel, it was just a little dig "inside" joke between me & Tommy towards a couple of nitwits because of yesterdays "Mika" thread.

Man you know I'm rooting for you guys to take out the frigin BoSux.  

Jeter wrote:

>>Well Tommy I didn't see O'Reilly say this, but you're a fair guy so I'll take your word for it...OOPS I'm not supposed to say that...dopeyFunnymanpants & his sidekick idiotGov will accuse me of kissing your behind ;-)

So now we're into silly name calling?

Aw, let Jeter have it, Funny. I like that you guys make him and Tommy crazy, and Jeter gets a little leeway for being an Italic-American Yankees fan who doesn't like the Red Sox.

You missed a weird time yesterday Colonel. A lot of accusations were made about some people posting with two different identities and at one point the two posters who were supposed to be the same started disagreeing with each other. Then I professed my manly love for Jeter, Jeter returned the manly compliment. Someone accused me of being someone else. Then I couldn't remember who the hell I was. I almost resorted to shouting in my internet tubes but then I decided to go have a drink instead.

I checked a couple threads last night. I made the mistake yesterday of scheduling myself a lot of road time during a very hot day with the AC out in my ride, in some of the hottest areas of the county .I wasn't sure if I was dreaming the comments I went over. It reminded me of Twin Peaks. Maybe even Eraserhead.

So now we're into silly name calling?

Only when dealing with silly folks like you Funnyman.

That's pretty brave Jeter, I've seen what guilt by association can do arround here.

I think my favorite BoReal moment was when described MMfa as,"The most vicious website on the planet."

Nobody has filled in all the blanks of what defined winning one of these debates. Still, no shyness of opinion on it in certain quarters.

A similar thing is the speculation on today's debate. Some of it does have some thought behind it, but the major points seem to be gut level in origin. Which is important per D Westin and others.

I think the uncertanties will remain unresovled till the election. A weather eye at pol trends may help, but their limits have to be kept in mind.

A confirming source always helps, Tommy.

One of the most interesting things I've heard over the past 24 hours (on radio and tv) is references to "previews" of tonight's debate. This is usually followed by clips of Hugh Hewitt's scripted "interview" of Palin, and opinions about how great Palin is.

Notice I didn't call Hewitt's interview  "softball", because it made softball interviews look like razor wire wrapped around porcupines.

I don't like to toss around the word "Orwellian" too lightly, but how do you present previews of something that hasn't happened yet?

Yes, "and up next, what color will Michele Obama's dress be at her husband's inauguration in January, we'll have our panel weigh in on that and the political ramifications of pale peach over cherry red.  Stay tuned, we'll be right back."

This is typical of  these media pundits who make these proclamations while completely disregarding public opinion. In lock step, they make these statements based on what their pundit colleagues say - like Pat Buchanan and Chris Matthews who almost always proclaim Obama's opponents the winners "based on points" . They seem to think the public is interested in the debates being  scored like criteria used in scoring college debate competitions.

What debate did Chuck Todd watch? Obama was outstanding last Friday. Unlike McCain who came across as hateful and angry.

It's interesting to see the spin about the debates. Every legitimate poll I've seen on the debate showed Obama winning (ABC, Gallup, USA Today, Wall Street Journal, NBC, CNN, CBS, Time Magazine, Bloomberg, Fox News, Rasmussen....even Frank Luntz's Fox News focus group!).

Obama then moved ahead of McCain in every major national poll. So polls on the actual debate showed he won, and it was followed by Obama moving ahead in the national polls for the Presidency, so how exactly can the pundits still call it a "tie"? Are they the sole judge and jury for who won, or do the people have some say?

The spin is running deep. I think the MSM has changed so much they want constant conflict and they want even the sense that McCain is this maverick come from behinder. McCain is a liar , he lied during the last debate and lost that debate, i do not care what any of these phony media types say.

I don't think what Mr. Todd didn't mean to say was that the audience did not judge Senator Obama as 'not winning' the debate, which didn't not take place last Friday.

some days, it's just too easy...

Todd is just a political hack. Nobody watches Matthews anyway.

I don't think Todd is a political hack.  Or at least, I didn't think that until I contacted him.  I sent him a very polite e-mail asking him what he meant by "nobody," and I got this response: "Media perception vs. voter reality.. Mediamatters as usual didn't present what I said in context."

Such a weird, defensive reaction.  He could have just said, “Sorry, I should have been more clear.  I didn’t mean nobody thought Obama won the debate; I just meant nobody in the media thought Obama won.”  That would have been an honest response, and it would have satisfied me.  Instead, he decided to go on the attack and blame Media Matters, which as usual did NOT, in fact, take Tood’s remarks out of context, but provided the full context.

Unfortunately there are two different scoring systems at work here. By the standard of having answers that mostly fit the questions and being clear and well spoken in his answers Obama won. But by the other standard of ignoring the question in order to stick to and continue to establish one's own definitions and framing McCain annihilated Obama. And this is exactly what Palin will try to do tonight. These sides are playing two different games. The election should be about which game America wants to play, the one where we ignore reality and try to create our own which hasn't worked out so well thus far in the millenium or one in which problems are adressed and reality is not ignored.

Hey Moonbat, I just replied to you, but was asked to not use profanity, then it disappeared.

I'm basically looking forward to a good show tonight, but am afraid that Palin has gone off into pinheadtown too many times lately, and will be put on a short leash (safe talking points only, and a lot of "running out the clock", as Grampy did)

That's going to be awkward if the filter has decided my name is a profanity.  I'm having internal conflict over watching the debate for the potential train wreck factor or tuning into actual entertainment instead.  I kind of doubt that anyone will have their votes changed by this thing.

All reports of past Palin debate performances show that she she pretty much sticks to a script regardless of what is said anyway so that leash won't really be new for her.  It's easier to blow past a moderator's questions than it is in a one on one interview even with a fluff journalist like Couric.

 (safe talking points only, and a lot of "running out the clock", as Grampy did)

OK, I won't brag about nailing this one, pretty obvious.I had to turn on Fox for the post game, and I just heard Fred Barnes specify the exact minute when Palin knew she was winning the debate.

Maybe the make-believe debate she was involved in that had not much to do with the topics. I don't get that channel on my cable system. Right now I'm watching the Luntz focus group. By a show of hands, almost all thought Palin won because she's "Main Street" and "spoke to America".

I realize the GOP has made a conscious stand that this election is not about the issues or facts, I just didn't know one could win a debate by avoiding those things.

Chuck Todd should stick to his core competency, and that is crunching numbers.

Debates don't mean much anyway. If people based their votes on who won debates, HC would have been the democratic nominee, as she clearly was the victor in her verbal bouts with the freshman senator. In the unlikely event that Maverick loses this election, it will be because he failed to go far enough to the right. He's wasting his time trying to win voters through the vehicle of the liberal media, and appeal to the liberal elites living on the coasts. He needs to return to middle America, and re-ignite his old Maverick ways which all of us patriotic Americans love and miss

I agree. the Mavrick needs to return to middle America, and stay there.

Then we'll have to move the white house

Once Elitist McCain figures out how many homes he owns...

and exactly where they are, maybe he'll find he has one in the midwest.  

I just sent Todd an e-mail.  Sad to see him going into the gutter with some of his colleagues.  Normally, he seems to be somewhat fair.

Sorry Thomp., the Maverick's gone.  He gelded himself for the base, and handed his gonads to Jerry Falwell.

Snoopy, sorry dawg but I don't approve of Jeter getting a room with Tommy. He's my man. In any case, I see he's already gotten one for us at the Waldorf, so never you mind. :-0)