Good lord, are the precious Democrats ever able to shoulder any responsibility for anything in MMFA's eyes.  This is ridiculous.  Nothing is ever their fault, they are never to blame, and their pristine hands are never involved.  It's about time all these lawmakers and the Bush administration stop trying to say "not me", and grow up.

Including the blind partisans that enable them to do so.

Who was in charge of Congress and the Senate in 2003? I can say, that it wasn't the democrats. It's laughable that you guys are trying to blame this on "both" sides, when the republicans were the ones running the show, and have been the most frequent and vocal about non regulation, free markets, capitalism, and so on and so forth.

How can democrats be "socialists" and for non regulation at the same time. Republicans' heads must be spinning as they cry for the regulation they so bitterly opposed for so long. Go back, look at how some of us on here no doubt yelped about high CEO paychecks, and I remember (not on here but on other boards) being told by republicans that the CEOs deserved those big paychecks. They DRIVE the economy.

How is the party of free markets and non regulation not responsible for this again? Especially when they were the ones who relaxed the regulation laws that prompted a lot of this?

Simple. Because the Democrats are always the champion of so called "affordable housing", and by relaxing standards on Freddie and Fannie, more people, some who cannot afford it, would be able to get mortgages.  And then when those people couldn't afford those mortgages, they can then blame it on predatory lenders....knowing all along that if they had tightened up the approvals on Fannie and Freddie they wouldn't have made it far easier for many these people with bad or little credit to go out and try and get a home loan.

The Dems played politics just as much as the Republicans.  And now it's all coming home to roost and none of them want the blame.  Tough, they all share it.

How about personal responsibility? Another carrot the right wing likes to throw out. Listen, are you telling me that some guy sitting in an office approving loans sees someone apply for a loan for say 500,000 when they're only making 40k/year that the company shouldn't be held responsible for that? That's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about affordable housing, we're talking about giving huge loans to people who couldn't afford them under the guise that they would have low payments if they signed up, and paid say, only interest and variable rates. Talk to some folks who were duped, and a lot of them will tell you that they thought they would pay the same amount for the entire length of their loan.

Again, democrats could not do the "relaxing" of the standards, the republicans were in charge. Remember? There were plenty of predatory lenders. And there were plenty of stupid people. I think that the folks who got loans they couldn't afford should be foreclosed on, because honestly, it's freakin' common sense.

I'm not saying that there isn't blame to go around, but remember who was running things from 1994 - 2006 in Congress.

Absolutely, I have already said there is plenty of blame to go around, but remember, some of these loans needed no backup, no income verification, nothing.  So if you wanted a house and you made 40K a year, you could easily have put 100k a year and your buddy, your employer, or another coworker could maybe got a phone call saying, "Sure, Joe makes 100k a year".......done, stamp, mortgage approved.  And whose fault is that? It's the politicians who relaxed Fannie and Freddie to let lenders take no doc loans, and the person lying about his or her income. 

As I said, it was a mess waiting to happen, and for the upteenth time, they are all to blame.

Bear in mind, the home loan fiasco, while bad, is not the biggest thing going on. It's a small part of what is happening.

True, but the topic of this thread is Fannie and Freddie and the mortgage mess that is driving this financial crisis.

Tommy wrote:

>>Simple. Because the Democrats are always the champion of so called "affordable housing", and by relaxing standards on Freddie and Fannie, more people, some who cannot afford it, would be able to get mortgages.

I doubt it is that simple. MMFA posted an item a few days ago showing that the minority lending program actually was done responsibly.

And your cliches such as "Tough, they all share it," is a cliche, not an argument.

Also, is MMFA saying that they were wrong when indicating that Frank did not oppose stricter regulations when he actually did? Isn't that the point of this article, and NOT who is to blame overall?

tommy wrote:

>>It's about time all these lawmakers and the Bush administration stop trying to say "not me", and grow up.

Tommy, that's a rant, not an argument. Here, let's just change a few words:

"

Good lord, is the precious Tommy ever able to shoulder any responsibility for any conservative misinformation?  This is ridiculous.  Nothing is ever the fault of the media, they are never to blame, and their pristine hands are never involved.  It's about time all the media and especially the main stream media stop trying to say "not me", and grow up.

Including the blind partisans that enable them to do so.

---

You see, ranting is easy.

Yes, I shoulder all responsibility for conservative misinformation within the media, does that make you feel better?

Oh, and your nothing but comical contrarion posts to whatever I say is quite the entertaining tidbit, even if it's utter nonsense most of the time.  :)

Tommy wrote:

>>Oh, and your nothing but comical contrarion posts to whatever I say is quite the entertaining tidbit, even if it's utter nonsense most of the time.  :)

Really? Because I didn't even use the word "comical." So I have no idea what you mean. But you were ranting instead of making a specific argument.

The content of your post, most of your posts actually, made me laugh, it was so ridiculous.  Funnymanpants is indeed a perfect name for you, I will give you that.

Carry on.......

Tommy wrote:

>>The content of your post, most of your posts actually, made me laugh, it was so ridiculous.  Funnymanpants is indeed a perfect name for you, I will give you that.

And I wonder why other posters ever bother to defend Tommy. Did you all see that little stunt? I point out that Tommy is ranting, and not providing an argument, and Tommy ends by saying all my posts are laughable and makes fun of my screen name.

Really, Tommy? That is your best contribution to this thread?

Tommy, bottom line - that oversight bill in 2002 (?) that mccain co-sponsored passed committee but was never scheduled for debate. Not vote, which comes after debate, strictly debate. Whether or not Dems have a share of blame bottom line is republicans controlled all three houses at the time and did not need a veto proof majority to pass that legislation, but chose to sit on it regardless. My opinion at this point is that it was just another lame grandstanding effort on republicans part to create a talking point.

Tommy is right. It's never the Dems fault. Whoever wrote the above about Brit Hume's coverage of Frank's opposition to stricter oversight is entirely stupid or has not done their research. Have you not seen the Cspan video from 2004 where Frank and Maxine Waters were saying Fannie was OK and they were all blaming those trying to warn them of being the problem; of claiming a witchhunt against Franklin Raines, when it was discovered the year before that he had overstated earnings by billions to get huge bonuses and ended up quitting and paying back millions; showing Maxine Waters gushing over the great leadership of the same Franklin Raines? I could on but suggest you watch it yourself. Did you ever hear Elizabeth Dole talk about the bill she and two other repubs tried to push throw but it never got out of committee because it was voted down along party lines, i.e., Dems booted it? Do some research and you will see plenty of articles pre-dating this election by years that talk about the problems, etc. Even the New York Times in 1999 wrote about the problems of making mortgages to people who can't afford them and mentioning there could be problems with a downturn in the economy. Have you ever seen the list of double-digit times the White House tried to do things and were always shot down? The response was the same as those on that video: you are being bigoted, you are the problem. Heck, even Bill Clinton recently made a statement about the role the Dems played in opposing reforms Republicans and he tried to make. I'm sorry that not everyone can afford to buy a house, but when are people going to wake up - not everything is a "right" under our Constitution. It only makes sense that if people can't pay their loans, then the bank or organization to whom they owe that money are not going to have money to meet their bills and lend to others. But due to social engineering and a desire to give everyone a house regardless of financial ability - policies pushed by the Dems and Clinton Administration - a bunch of people who should have never gotten a mortgage got one. Get yourself an education and stop being so biased. If you want to expose lies and distortions and media really matters, try to step back and be objective. I am mad Republicans did not push their weight around to do something, but for you and others to sit there and blame the Repubs without placing ANY blame on Dems - who are caught in print and on tape (including Barney) saying Fannie Mae was OK while there were clearly problems - is so disingenuous to what is allegedly your position of exposing falsehoods and the truth. No, you don't want to get at the truth, because you don't like it when the truth is inconsistent with your view of the world and casts the people you idolize in a bad light. You would think the fact Bill Clinton even places blame on the Dems would wake you up. (Oh, and by the way, I can guarantee that if Barney was involved in any bills, he did it to look like he was doing something and never intended to let it go through. He probably was upset because money to ACORN was being cut off. When you follow the money to him, Dodd, and Obama, it's no wonder Frank would vote against it.)

This has become THE major talking point on local wingnut radio, that Frannie/Freddie/Franklin Raines/Obama are the ENTIRE cause of the financial meltdown. Frannie and Freddie are not blameless, but I think the description of them as more followers than leaders in this mess is accurate.

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>>True, but the topic of this thread is Fannie and Freddie and the mortgage mess that is driving this financial crisis."

Tommy,

I think that you are being a bit dishonest when you justify your attack ("Good lord, are the precious Democrats ever able to shoulder any responsibility for anything in MMFA's eyes...") by claiming you're being guided by the topic of the thread [article] when in fact you are ignoring the actual topic.

The actual topic is:

'Special Report falsely suggested Fannie and Freddie chief perpetrators of "financial mess," [AND] Rep. Frank opposed stricter oversight'

So are you saying that Fannie and Freddie ARE the chief perpetrators of the current financial mess?

And, are you also saying that Rep. Barney Frank (a democrat) DID oppose stricter oversight?

Oops, I used Word to spell check my post, and then copy/pasted it. I guess this also copied the document information at the top. AND, I just noticed the preview icon above - Darn! Won't happen again.

The GOP wants to talk about Freddie and Fannie so they can paint the problems with the credit markets as being a bi-partisan problem. They also get to blame minorities and poor people instead of the speculators and thugs running Wall Street.

in 2003-2004 Fannie & Freddie ramp up their lobbying in response to the attempt to put more legislation.  You can verify this at opensecrets.org which publishes a detailed database of all lobbying activites.

They use this money to convince most Democrats in the house financal services subcommittee and some Republicans to block the legislation.  The quid pro quo is that Fannie & Freddie will massively increase their support for low cost home ownership.  There is plenty of video of the hearings that backs up the fact that Barney Frank and the rest of the democrats on the committe fought hard against more oversight.

In 2004-2006 they go on a buying spree of Wall Street paper littered with subprimes.  This purchasse of this paper fuels the ability to originate subprimes.  They don't buy and hold this paper and the Wall St firms don't have the capital to issue them.  OFHEO stopped them in mid-2007.  From the OFHEO release:

"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac hold approximately $370 billion in private-label securities, almost all of which carry the highest investment grade rating. Approximately $170 billion of these securities are backed by subprime mortgages. Since these securities were acquired before the implementation date, they will not be affected by the guidance …"

Furing this period Fannie & Freddie also buy increasingly exotic mortgages and repackage them for resale as mortgage backed securities...securities that are toxic because the are littered with subprimes and alt-a loans. 

To understand the scope and impact of this, consider that Fannie Mae's book of business alone is $3 trillion, almost 25% of the entire mortage market.

In 2005-2006, the regulatory legislation returns.  This time it passes the House, but Barney Frank still votes against it.  He says it has amendments he doesn't like.  The Senate cannot muster the 60 votes it needs to reach cloture and the bill is never presented to the floor.

2007, Barney Frank, now the committee chair, since the Democrats now have control reintroduces reform legislation.  It dies.  In 2008, the key language is reintroduced as part of a larger set of legislation and passes into law on July 30, 2008.

Too late.  The financial infrastructure of the US (and the world) is mortally wounded.

Both parties play in this.  Fannie & Freddie's avarice plays in this, but Barney Frank plays a very big role, regardless of what he now says or Democratic Cover Media Matters thinks.