Amazing how these so-called "good Christians" have no problem lying about others.  Isn't there a Commandment against "bearing false witness"???

Wiz,

These are the dog days of the campaign. Nothing but crap to fill the time. Wait till the debates. I think Obama's poll numbers will rise & all the BS being thrown around by these so called Christians, & others out there attacking him or smearing him will be forgotten.

Ok, maybe I figure America has learned a hard lesson after 8 yrs of Bush. I know I have.

"Tis true Jeter. These so called "Christians", that have decided that deception and lying about a political opponent they don't like is somehow justified by the fact that they call themselves "Christians" is pathetic. They need to revisit their faith and it's tenets and stop perverting what Christianity is all about.

"Tis true Jeter. These so called "Christians", that have decided that deception and lying about a political opponent they don't like is somehow justified by the fact that they call themselves "Christians" is pathetic. They need to revisit their faith and it's tenets and stop perverting what Christianity is all about.

I agree, Tommy.  I lived in Southern Colorado for 11 years - eight of those I worked in Colorado Springs.  I came in contact with those so-called "Christians" every workday.  There was never any concern for what was right and what was wrong - instead, it was always a case of "the ends justify the means".

I live in W. Ky. (I grew up in the real world, So cal.) Christianity in these parts is a sunday morning phenomena. Wed. nites too. This demographic is officially the grease, sugar and bleached white flour belt. I would build a Budhist Temple here but the Christians would burn it down!

Did you even listen to the show or read the transcript?

Do you know if former Muslim Nonie Darwish is a Christian? I don’t, and neither do you.

Jan Markell didn’t say these things, her guest did. In fact Markell at least once called for Nonie Darwish to define what she meant by political Muslim.

PS. If you’re so concerned with "bearing false witness", maybe you should be a little more careful with what YOU say.

Maxi-pad: Jan Markell didn’t say these things, her guest did. In fact Markell at least once called for Nonie Darwish to define what she meant by political Muslim.

 

Summary: On her syndicated Christian radio talk show, Jan Markell hosted "former Muslim" Nonie Darwish, who claimed that "whether he believes in Islam or not," Sen. Barack Obama is a "political Muslim" who, as a child, was "immersed in a culture that was anti-American." She also stated that "Obama was influenced by" Islam, which she called "a very political" and "not a true religion."

duh, you may wanna rethink that statement, maxi-pad.

nonie dishwater is mentally constipated with right wing brain clutter.  Isn't this othe "chick" palins long lost twin sister? I think I will start listening to "christian radio right after I finish knitting a rug out of naval lint. I will start knitting right after the universe stops expanding but,  before the second coming. I am accepting naval lint donations. So start saving.

Apparently the complexity here is too great for you to understand snoops. I’ll try to break it down for you.

1. WZWRITER said: Amazing how these so-called "good Christians" have no problem lying about others.

2. I Said: Do you know if former Muslim Nonie Darwish is a Christian? I don’t, and neither do you.

Jan Markell didn’t say these things, her guest did.

Isn't there a Commandment against "bearing false witness"???

Yeah, it's on the same level as that one about your neighbor's wife. Not one of their favorites.

Isn't there a Commandment against "bearing false witness"???

They think that not only are they are above the law, they think they're above the Commandments.

 IT DOESN'T APPLY (IN THEIR MIND ) TO THESE RIGHT WING EVANGELICALS 

 It applies to all real christians, The rightwing Evangelicals are certainly an insult to true christians

Stupefied I am.   Christians? Or Rovians?

Ya ever notice how these right wing Christians consist of ugly skanks who are jeleous of the fact that Obama looks better than their best?

I am astonished at these buffoons. It is very possible that Obama, living under those conditions, to come to the conclusion having a christian family, a beautiful smart wife and two adorable kids is the way to go. You have to live under adverse conditions to understand good. I would have no problem sitting next to this family at a BBQ.

On the other hand, I wouldn't want to be with 100 feet of Jan Markell or Nonie Darwish.

Well, isn't that special?

i forgot about the church lady. she was hilarious.

Dana Carvey reportedly based the character on real "church ladies" he grew up with.

I saw them myself, the sanctimonious, self-righteous prigs who would re-crucify Jesus today, for being "too liberal."

Meanwhile these two in the MMFA post throw their Bibles out the window, making up anything and everything to smear Obama.

The "good Christian" G. Gordon Liddy is *STILL* spreading the rumor that Obama's birth certificate is fake.

At the "Values Summit," a couple ditwits put out a box of "Obama Waffles" that had several racist attempts at "humor" on the box.

This is what the right-wing is reduced to, hysterical fear, lies about Obama, lies about their candidates' records, lies about the lies, racism and religious bigotry.

I posted that info along with some other statements from christian leaders saying Obama was a muslim. AA of course scoffed at that and suggested I was so in hate with RW christianity that I'd believe anything. Now here we are again...

Must people have no clue what christian or muslim means.  The extreme forms of both is the only thing the media ever reports. Once again no common ground in this world which is going to be the end of everybody eventually.

Reminds me of an old twilight zone movie...

"...which is going to be the end of everybody eventually."---Skettle2000

My guess for what it's worth:  50% chance within 200 years and 90% chance within 400 years.  The only good scenario I see for mankind's long term survival (and most animals) is for the first nuclear war to be relatively light, killing almost all but in which some do survive at a very primitive cultural level in some areas that are not heavily poisoned.  If it's not heavy enough, there will be more nuclear wars.  If too heavy, the planet would be made uninhabitable for the few survivors to carry on the the race.

I still don't get what she means by "political Muslim".

Besides the fact that they can't call him a Muslim and still believe they are not liars, this attack line is aimed at Obama's economic populism.

I find it very interesting that everytime Obama makes a strong populist appeal to the American people, all of these cultural conservatives ratchet up their rhetoric. Obama faults conservative economic philosophy and McCain talks about Lohan and Streissand. Obama talks about an economy that works for everyone, not just the fat cats and these newly invigorated cons, talk about Obama being a Muslim.

They are so close to having one of their own (the veep) in the white house they can taste it.

And it takes YUMMY !

That should be Tastes YUMMY MOMMY !

How do you think disappointment is going to taste?

That's gotta be the most frustating thing for Republicans, the guaranteed taste of disappointment.

If the Dems win, they're disappointed because victory is everything.

If the GOPpers win, they're disappointed because everything sucks, and they've fallen for it again.

Then in four years , they line up begging for another helping of disappointment.

I've tasted disappointment of these last eight years (as you have).  It's bitter and I'm looking forward to the fresh, sweet and natural flavor that Obama and Biden will bring to the White House in January - along with the control the Democrats will retain in Congress.

These so-called Christian folks are the very reason I quit going to any church (I was raised a mixture of Catholic and Assembly of God - no wonder my spiritual life is f**ked).  They're hypocrites - and it's sad to say, but they make up the majority of my family.

Thanks to both of you. 

You know Col, I don't blame Republican voters entirely for falling for this stuff again and again. Republicans are absolute masters at communicating gut level manipulations. Republicans are marketing geniuses, they have sold us an enticing image, but have proven themselves utterly unable to do anything but dismantle our government, and it is our government.  

I mention this Tom Foolery branding, of which Republicans remain unrivaled, as it refers to your point, CSL. The Democratic Party have sold me some sorry lines. NAFTA jumps out immediately. It was well intentioned and has some upshot in as much as it has brought at least a little prosperity to some impoverished nations. 

As economic doctrine, NAFTA has been very good to the professional corporatists who run humongous global companies. It has conjured up phantastic wealth for them. As humanitarian doctrine it has utterly failed to enable an adequate standard of living for all people. NAFTA has enabled exploitation of the powerless by the merciless. But you see, in the long run Dems were weak in comparison to Republican and didn't stand against the Big Money Party for labor rights and protections for the environment. They failed to stand up for the working folks and the planet after they ran as progressive populists. Dems, now, are considering pushing NAFTA style trade pacts into Colombia. 

While the new atmosphere may seem fresh in Washington when the Democrats get there, we can not doubt for a moment the rotten influences at work there today will leave unless we force them out. 

There is something that gives a different angle to this Obama being a Muslim or a Christian.  Basically if you read Tolle - who is Oprah's number 1 spirtual guru his theory is a Muslim and and Christian are the same thing at the core and the only difference between them is Man Mad and not God Made.  Meaning that to God a muslim and christian are the same thing.  It is only the mind-logic of man that makes a distinction.

So if Obama says "I'm a Muslim" this in now way ( from Tolle's perspective ) is different from saying "I'm a Christian".

I believe in Obama's heart he believes there is no difference.

Note I am not attacking him on this point, or saying he is wrong.  I think this is what he believes and it is a valid point.  I am certain Oprah believes it.

Not sure I follow you here.  If Oprah's guru believes it and Oprah does as well, why would it follow that Obama does?  Does Obama follow the same spiritual guru?  Or are you equating black people from Chicago with the letter "O" in their names?

What I'm saying is Oprah and Obama are pretty good friends - do you agree ?  I mean they went to same church before in Chicago and associate with the same social circles.  Oprah even used Tolle to defend the actions of Rev Wright.  Obama has a mixed background and Tolle's teachings would allow him to unify his identity and not to have any conflict.   Tolle and Rev Wright are good friends as well.  Ofcourse you would have to ask Obama but it is a guess of mine.  

Also Obama said in ABC interview "My Muslim Faith", before he was corrected by the reporter.

Obviously I don't have proof but those are my thoughts and I would love to ask Obama if he has read Tolle and what he thinks of Tolles philosophy and if he agrees tha the difference between Christian and Muslim is Man ma rather than God made.

I want to chime in here- I watched 5 or 6 of Tolle's broadcasts with Oprah and found him to be honest, consistent and somewhat interesting ( I only say 'somewhat' because I already understand everything he says) and ANYONE who takes him seriously and thinks and tries to do what he suggests is ok in my book.

I have read all of Tolles books many times and his work is amazing - best spirtuality teacher around right now - no doubt about it. 

But what scares the hell out of me ( and everybody thinks I'm totally nuts for this ) is that I think Tolle believes the end times are near - especially in his book "The New Earth" where the last sentence is the "Meek Shall Inherit the Earth".  Here is where we get kooky.  Basically I believe this means the people that are meek are going to inherit an earth ruled by the New World Order, which Obama will lead.   The so called False Prophet.   I think somehow the rest of the people will go to heaven sometime when Jesus returns.  Possibly Palin is 2nd coming.

Anyways here is even where it gets crazier.  The religious guy that prayed for Palin to become Governor and who Palin herself credits has said the End times are near and Alaska will become the heaven for Christians when the end times come !  Freak me out or what.

Secondly, and this is nuts, there is this new supercollider that is suppose to find the start of the universe or God's particle.  God's particle is something everybody knows exists but nobody has found yet.  What else does everybody knows exists but we have not found - GOD.  So the finding of this particle may be the finding of GOD and that is it - the end times.

I know it sounds crazy but the pieces are fitting together day by day.

 

I haven't read the book (or any of his) but I have read others (Browne, Cayce, etc) that have said this century MAY be a physical upheaval for earth- some say endtimes, Browne says she doesn't know, Cayce said he'd be back and the earth would still be here (Nebraska would be a new coast).  Any-hoo... does any of it really matter?  No.  We all just roll with the punches.  

All I know it is freaking strange the stuff that is happening.  Have you heard of the 12th Imam - this is what the leader of Iran is praying for and even went to the UN to pray for.  The 12th Imam has something to do with the endtimes as well.  I mean I thinked we are totally in big trouble - but whatever.  I mean I worry about Obama being the false prophet - scares the bat crap out of me.

ummm...  o. Kay...

Be careful, you may be tricked and have them mixed up!  Many will be deceived.

Maybe Palin is the False Prophet...just sayin...

Could be .. you never know. 

Actually, we do know that Palin is not prophet at all.

Prophets aren't puppets for a political party.

Not so sure if Palin is a puppet - she got involved in politics first through PTA and then by becoming the mayor and to become governor defeated in incumbent Republican.  Many GOPs hate her for going against the old boys network.   Also her husband was once part if Alaska Independence Party.  They both don't seem to have come from political families or went through the normal GOP paths.  It seems to me she is not really a puppet for anybody and speaks her own mind.

Skettle,

What I'm saying is Oprah and Obama are pretty good friends - do you agree?  I mean they went to same church before in Chicago and associate with the same social circles. No disagreement there.

  Oprah even used Tolle to defend the actions of Rev Wright.  Obama has a mixed background and Tolle's teachings would allow him to unify his identity and not to have any conflict.   Tolle and Rev Wright are good friends as well.  Ofcourse you would have to ask Obama but it is a guess of mine.   I have a friend who went to church with me growing up who has far, far, different beliefs than I do even though we ran with the same social skills and have a similar racial background.  I would hope you wouldn't assume we had the same beliefs

Also Obama said in ABC interview "My Muslim Faith", before he was corrected by the reporter.

Slips happen all the time.  Bloggers/talk show hosts have talked about his "Muslim faith."  Do you expect John McCain thinks that Putin is the President of Germany?

Obviously I don't have proof but those are my thoughts and I would love to ask Obama if he has read Tolle and what he thinks of Tolles philosophy and if he agrees tha the difference between Christian and Muslim is Man ma rather than God made.

Why, if religion means nothing to you, would that be a question to ask?

Because I'm interested in people and their story and their life's, and their thoughts.   I am not some crazy left wing or right wing nut.  I like to look in the middle and examine the players and their stories, and their upbringing and thoughts.   There is nothing wrong with this.

I will clarify - from a voting perspective I don't care what someone's religion is .  But from a human interest point of view I do care and am interested.

 

How do you know Barack and Oprah like each other?

You've almost got it.

See, Obama is required to believe that he thinks he's a Muslim that's the same as a Christian because Oprah's guru wrote that a Muslim and a Christian are man-made but Oprah is God-made and by virtue of all the money that is Oprah-made, Obama must be a muslim even if he doesn't want to.

Because Oprah said.

So because Oprah believes something, then Obama MUST believe the same thing?

Are you seriously trying to peddle that so called "theory"?

Where did I use the word MUST.   Can't you guys and girls have a serious discussion ?  I have no problem with Muslims or Christians.  I don't give a crap what his religion is !!! Anytime anybody says one damn thing on this site everybody jumps all over it and is so sensitive.  I'm not Attacking your Messiah - lay off !

I don't give a crap what his religion is !!! Anytime anybody says one damn thing on this site everybody jumps all over it and is so sensitive.  I'm not Attacking your Messiah - lay off !

You've concocted a "connection" between Oprah, Obama and a author that Oprah likes, and you're whinning because I'm questioning your "so called theory"? 

I'm simply taking offense to the fact that you lied by somehow implying I said MUST.  I said no such thing and you know it.  You are just looking for arguments like most people on this site.

First, I apologize, you didn't use the word "must", I did.

I'm trying to understand how you could connect the thinking of an author Oprah likes to what Obama thinks or feels.

Obama and Oprah individuals who happen to be friends, NOT Siamese twins!  

No problem - I'm too sensitive anyways.

"Can't you guys and girls have a serious discussion ?"

"I know it sounds crazy but the pieces are fitting together day by day.

"Here is where we get kooky. Basically I believe this means the people that are meek are going to inherit an earth ruled by the New World Order, which Obama will lead. The so called False Prophet. I think somehow the rest of the people will go to heaven sometime when Jesus returns. Possibly Palin is 2nd coming."

- SKETTLE2000 / Wednesday September 17, 2008 7:34:05 PM EDT

"Have you heard of the 12th Imam…?"

- SKETTLE2000 / Wednesday September 17, 2008 8:13:42 PM EDT

"I mean I thinked we are totally in big trouble - but whatever. I mean I worry about Obama being the false prophet - scares the bat crap out of me."

- SKETTLE2000 / Wednesday September 17, 2008 8:13:42 PM EDT

Are the above quotes your idea of a serious discussion? I didn't even mention the super collider and "God Particle", Which by the way doesn't have anything to do with Religion or God.

Get a grip. There will be no biblical end times.

Well said.

The second coming is a ruse - and millions of "Christians" have bought into it as some sort of rescue from their "suffering".

In fairness to Skettle and his mention of the supercollider: I'm very curious of the experiments being done there.  While I don't believe there is a religious connection to these experiments, to me it's imperative that we understand our universe's origins. 

And to you fundies (Skettle?), don't you think that if G-d didn't want us messing around with the origin of the universe, s/he wouldn't have given us the brainpower to come up with the idea to do so?  Sheesh...your logic sucks daily.

 

Part of God as I see it ( believe me I don't go to church either BUT do believe in God ) is he gave man free will and a mind.  They can sin if they wish - God does not control man - this is why he gave them free will. 

Now this supe rcollider is looking for something called "God's Particle", and the origins of universe.  It scares me, many are talking about end times - even people like this Tolle and Palin's religious friend.

So if Obama says "I'm a Muslim"

Something he has never said, is not saying now, and will not say in the future.

Other than that, your premise is sound.

I believe what Skettle is getting at is that Islam, Judaism and Christianity are related/sister religions with a common root and who believe in the same G-d.  That brings us to the question: Why do these hateful "Christians" attack their spiritual brethren (Muslims and Jews)?

I'd take a political Muslim over a political Christian ANY day!

I see your point - and knowing human nature (that it's hard to separate one's religion from influencing how one governs), I agree.

But I'd just as soon keep religion out of politics.

In perhaps one of the strangest twists to date in the story of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, a video now shows the governor crediting her electoral success to a preacher who claims to successfully hunt witches.

Boy, this sure makes me feel better about RW christianity...

This is the same dude that says the end times are near and Alaska will be where the Christians can be safe.  All I know is there is lots of end times stuff going around right now.  Well I'm going to bed .. ! 

You should go hide UNDER your bed from the scary brown people.                  Are you a loyal bushie?

Bush is big problem is he is not his own man.  Controlled by people like Cheney.   I'm a big fan of Bill Clinton.  I also like McCain.  I like Obama as well but I do view him as a little bit of a risk just because of some past ties to Ayers/Wright/Resko.   I think Obama could be a great president, just somewhat of a risk to me - that's just the way I feel right now.  I would be more comfortable with Hillary.  My FAV pick would be Colin Powell.

 

I like Obama as well but I do view him as a little bit of a risk just because of some past ties to Ayers/Wright/Resko.

All debunked in the past, and not understood by you.

I'd say Obama's ties to those people are as strong as your ties to reality.

In other words, non-existent.

We don't know the real relationship between Wright and Obama or Ayers and Obama or Resko and Obama.  It is mainly innuendo but I will state that we just don't know.  He does have ties to all 3 but we don't know what those ties entail or what he has talked to them about in private.

Going to bed?

Shouldn't you be going to Alaska?

Are these guys participating in a stupidity contest?  If they are, they're definitely in the Final Four.

"the one thing to take care of everybody through the government, this is an Islamic concept, because, in Islam, you want to dominate every aspect of a person's life through the government."

What a jackass!  So let  me gwt this strait... National Health care: Islamic.  Censoring "indecent" books & movies, discrimination against homosexuals, forcing women to bear childeren even when raped, teaching creation in science classes, holding back medical resarch that can cure diseases: Christian?

Hey: Moron - This is the problem when RELIGION get s embroilled in government.  National Health Care is a HUMANIST position.  Religious motives only brings CRAP to government, regardless of what label you put of your personal set of medieval superstitions.  All Religion in government does is seek to TAKE AWAY OUR FREEDOMS.  Period.  It can do nothing else.  And it can do no good.  Whether Islamic or not doesn't enetr into it.

 These pharosies all have a special place in hell being stoked for them.  More and more I'm coming to the conclusion that if there IS a God, s/he msut HATE the American Conservatives and Republican's that use his/her name in vain.