If Bill Kristol thinks Caribou Barbie has enough experience, then he forfeits any future rights to question Barack Obama's experience.....

Flagged for being off-topic, irrational, and out of line.

Flagged for being off-topic, irrational, and out of line.

And it looks like the loser's posts were all scrubbed out of the threads.  So no one else will see his useless drivel.

Thank you, Powers That Be at MMFA.  I appreceiate your swift action.

There has never been a question about experience for Obama.  He has none. 

None, you say?  Interesting... How, then, DID Obama become a senator and a presidential candidate?  Did he just 'beef' up his resume? Did he lie?  Please let us know,  pointyview, because inquiring minds want to know.

That is a great question that I would like you to answer yourself if you're so confident in his experience and qualifications.  Please inform us of why you think he is so uniquely equipped to be our president. 

How about you just answer the question first instead of derailing the question by asking the exact opposite question?

No, I really want to know what makes him qualified in your eyes to be our next president.  There are a lot of Obama fanatics out there who are voting for him without knowing much about the man or what he stands for, or what he's done or hasn't done to make him a good fit for the job. 

And I'm not derailing anything.  I don't know what makes him qualified, and frankly, there are many asking this question, so I'm wanting to know from someone who is so confident in his abilities why he is experienced and qualified sufficiently to be our president.  The question was how he become a senator and a presidential nominee.  I want to know because I'm admitting that I do not have that answer.  I'm skeptical.

We'll make it simple for the simple-minded.

This posting is about Bill Kristol's conservative misinformation that makes Palin look better than she deserves to look if you hold Kristol accountable for his previous statements. Making her look better than she deserves to look furthers the conservative agenda.

This posting isn't about whether or not Palin is qualified. It's about Kristol's hypocrisy, and how that hypocrisy is covering up for Palin, and making her look better than his previous opinion said she should be credited with.

The posting is not about Obama's qualifications.

The posting is not about us proving to you that a State Senator and a US Senator has the qualifications to be US President.

Now do you understand why it's off topic? Hopefully you're now embarrassed that you couldn't figure it out on your own.

The

Well, since we're talking about it, and because this entire thread is about experience, I want to know why Obama is a good choice.  If you are so confident Bottleblonde, then fill me in.  Let me know why he is a good choice.  I am just wanting to know why he is so qualified in your eyes.  I'm sorry if you don't like it, but threads take a turn sometimes when topics of interest are raised.  I'm still making up my mind, and obviously you have already made up yours.  Let me know how and why you have already made up yours.  To you, what makes him qualified?  Also, no need for insulting me and my "simple mind".  You can answer the question and debate intelligently, or you can sidestep a simple question and insult me.  I didn't think I embarassed myself by asking a simply question, and if you think I did, then there is no need to debate because you will obviously resort to calling me mindless, stupid, kool-aid drinker, embarassing.....what have you, because I asked a simple question. I just want you to explain why he is so good and enticing for this position. 

Because he was against the war in Iraq.  That's why he's qualified, for starters.  I could go on, but that's all you get for now.

I think being right about the war from the start when many others are still to this very day stuck in a state of arrested development shows the intelligence, foresight/vision and wisdom of Barrack Obama in a nutshell.  McCain still thinks the invasion was a friggin' fantastic idea.

There are other issues to this entire debate, but I understand some place more weight on certain issues rather than others.

I doubt you're really skeptical or undecided, and I noticed you keep refusing to answer the original question, but I'll play your little game...

Obama worked with Russ Feingold (D–WI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act", which was signed into law in September 2007.

He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.

Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act", a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.

Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.

joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.

Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obam...


THESE ARE BARACK'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE U.S. SENATE TO DATE:

** First legislation, the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100, and later joined Senator Kennedy on the Higher Education legislation that passed July 20, by a vote of 78-18. That legislation also included funding for Predominantly Black Colleges to assist with counseling, tutoring and other needs of low income students. It also creates the Teaching Residency Act which will create a school-based teacher preparation program in high needs schools to provide each teacher with a mentor, content instruction, classroom management skills, a master’s degree and state certification, and a 2 year follow-up program.


**The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
is an act that requires the full disclosure of all entities or organizations receiving federal funds beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2007 on a website maintained by the Office of Management and Budget.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Fun...


**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.
Signed into Law on January 11, 2007.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community...


**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
http://www.rollcall.com/issues/53_17/new...
http://www.commonblog.com/story/2007/9/1...

** The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd...

** S116 - Summer Learning demonstration project to provide summer learning grants and encourage new teaching methods.
http://www.pasesetter.org/demonstrationP...

and this one, moved out of committee just a few days ago:
Obama's Global Poverty Act of 2007, passed out of committee just a few days ago
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Congressman Adam Smith (D-WA) today hailed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's passage of the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. This legislation was introduced in December. Smith and Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House last September.
http://obama.senate.gov /


Amendments, that have all passed:

S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.

S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.

S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas

 

In short, it's the ideals he represents and the issues he supports that makes him qualified in my eyes.

I am in fact skeptical of Obama, and I am undediced, however to be fair, I am leaning towards McCain.  I don't want to mislead.  And about the post I originally responded to in which they were more rhetorical questions than anything, there wasn't a question asked of me.  I was simply wanting to know why Obama backers are so crazy about him.  I really do appreciate that you have given examples and reason for your support of him.  At the very least I have to respect that.  I know we disagree on many of these issues, but respect is due to you for knowing why you agree with the man.  In my opinion, I have a hard time trusting Obama, and I don't agree with many of his positions on issues.  Honestly though, I appreciate the reply. 

So now MMFA is challenging the consistency of admitted and well-known  rightwing pundits in their own opinion columns?

There must be some tumblin' tumbleweeds in the landscape of conservative misinformation these days.......

Wait a minute, Tommy.

On August 25th, Kristol said he believed that Caribou Barbie did not have enough experience to be VP - on September 7th, he said she does.  Wouldn't you characterize this as a "flip-flop"???

Since he's had two different opinions within a two-week span, then ONE of them has to be "misinformation".  And since he's a conservative, that makes it "conservative misinformation".  It's up to us to figure out which opinion is misinformation.  (HINT:  it's the second one....)

Wiz,

Kristol indeed flip flopped, not unlike candidates [from their own parties] that ran against either Obama or McCain. Hell Biden said Obama wasn't ready to be Prez. Now of course he's whistling a different tune.

The pundits & op-ed columnists do it too.

It's fine that MMFA highlights it, but let's not be shocked by business as usual.

"It's fine that MMFA highlights it, but let's not be shocked by business as usual."

The universal answer to WITH.

When MMFA posts an article, they aren't yelling "THIS MUST STOP!!!" They're putting something on the record.

If you go by what's written, they don't even express disapproval. We know they do disapprove, of course, but the GOP loves technicalities so let's go with it.

And what they are putting on the record is business as usual. That was my point. They can & should highlight this type of thing. As long as it's understood that both sides  indulge in flip flopping I have no problem nor am I asking WITH? If I were, I would have come straight out and asked. You must know by now I'm not shy.

I was trying to run with your statement, not contradict you.

However, "both sides do it" is just about the weakest claim out there. The major parties are enormous national organizations, thus there will be at least one instance of just about anything coming from each side.

Hell Biden said Obama wasn't ready to be Prez. Now of course he's whistling a different tune.

How long ago was that debate, Jeter?  A lot of things have happened between the night Biden made those comments about Obama and today, and millions of us (including Joe Biden) feel that Barack Obama is indeed quialified to be our next president.  Bill Kristol flip-flopped within a span of less than two weeks, so it's obvious that he's talking out of his butt - as usual.

What is it to you that makes him qualified?  Please explain.

He's competent (and not ready for the old folks home.)

WZ

Do you ever read before you open your dumb mouth?  Kristol never said Palin was not qualified.  And compared to Mr. Community organizer, she has a wealth of experience. 

Jesus Christ was a community organizer too, dipstick. And he led a lot more  people than caribou barbie ever could. 6,000 drunks, what a joke!

Good Point....Obama only thinks he is God. 

What's this with Palin's anti semite church? The one where the pastor tells the people they can all be mini gods on earth if they join his outreach program? I never knew republicans had a mini god camp...

Caribou Barbie is a Troglodyte. Make no mistake. There's a good chance that Grampy won't finish his first term in office. His VP believes that Armageddon is a good thing, as it will hasten the return of Jeeeeeeezzzzzzzzuuuuuussssssss, and she will have access to the largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Not a desireable scenario, if you ask me.

SNOOP:

Nice try...that's the Obama smear and sneer.  That Palin's "town" has 6,000.  She is a GOVERNOR, elected state-wide with population about the same as Delaware. 

And besides if she's only led 6,000 it's 6,000 more than Obama has led. AND if they are all drunks I'm sure Palin did more for them than Obama did for the drunks in South Chicago as a "Community Organizer"  READ: Rabble rouser for far-left group ACORN which is an indictment machine.

BTW, Jesus Christ is a LEADER of the church and in fact is God in human form.  Meanwhile, St. Barack is looking more mortal every time he opens his mouth.

Yeah, you're right. She fought to keep the bars open until 5 A.M. Quite a historic feat, that. And she names her kids after airplanes.How original is that?

"BTW, Jesus Christ is a LEADER of the church and in fact is God in human form."

"In fact"?  I must have missed when subjective matters of faith transformed into objective reality. 

Did he say absolutely that McCain should not pick her or that her relative lack of experience might be a reason he might not.

Big difference.

This isn't Maude at the diner sharing how she feels about things. This is a man who is given space in several publications to spew his idiocy. It's awesome that you have so many WITH cards to play but really, misinformation is misinformation. When I listen to talk radio, some of the shows are local hosts with a limited audience, but amazingly they are talking about the same things as Rush and Hannity on the same day. It doesn't matter the size and scope, it is the way they operate, catapult the propaganda until it beomces the "truth".

A columnist's opinion that you don't happen to agree with is not misinformation, it is a difference of opinion.  If he feels Palin is qualified then so be it.  I don't believe she is either, but that is also just an opinion.

"A columnist's opinion that you don't happen to agree with is not misinformation, it is a difference of opinion.  If he feels Palin is qualified then so be it.  I don't believe she is either, but that is also just an opinion."

 

Yet two weeks ago KRISTOL

"A columnist's opinion that you don't happen to agree with is not misinformation, it is a difference of opinion.  If he feels Palin is qualified then so be it.  I don't believe she is either, but that is also just an opinion."

 

Yet two weeks ago KRISTOL HIMSELF said Palin was not ready. He has only changed his opinion since her nomination. It's not as bad as Rove's flip-flop but it's justas relevent as he has The New York times to spout his gibberish in.

 

 

bollocks to that Tommy. To have any integrity as a political commentator you should at least BELIEVE what you write yourself. You'd expect that if Kristol has said Palin doesn't have the experience, you'd hope he had based that assessment on some in depth consideration and analysis, and not on a whim, especially considering who he's writing for. Now he's changed his mind, but has acknowledged that he's changed his mind.

So what's the point of reading his commentary? MMFA is 100% right to point out not just that they don't agree with his assessment, but that HE HIMSELF doesn't agree with his assessment, and this should cast doubt on all his other political assessments, at the very least. If you can't see the relevance of this posting, I can't help you.

sorry- HASNT acknowledged that he's changed his mind.

Yes, we all know that you would have had a much higher opinion of Kristol, his integrity firmly intact with you and the left, if he had just simply said he changed his mind, no problem.

Please, you would then call him a hypocrite instead of a flip-flopper.  And your opinion, and MMFA's, would be no different.  This is his slanted, biased opinion, nothing more.

he changed his opinion. that is the point. and it raises the question of how he comes to his opinions in the first place. if you can't understand that very simple situation, again, 'i can't help you.'

I am sure you can't help me, so you're off the hook, but thanks for trying.

Tomjoad:

Arguing with Tommy is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It just frustrates you and confuses the pig ... :)

Kristol changing his mind is Kristol changing his mind. If he wants to do that and gives reasons for that then that is up to him. What he did in this case is to say that Palin is unqualified for the role she has been given by McCain, but then ignore that two weeks later to say what a good choice she is. You would think that you would see this and recognise why it's misinformation regardless of what the view of Kristol is. It's a pity that you are deliberately trying to ignore that point. 

The point is that opinion columns by admitted partisans are just that.  Of course they will be picked apart and disagreed with by many, and in this case I disagree with Kristol as much as anyone here,  but so what?  It's his opinion, it's not disguised or misrepresented for anything other than what it is.  

To say he changed his mind or is being inconsistent in his argument may be fodder for Comedy Central skewering, but not much more.

The point is that opinion columns by admitted partisans are just that.  Of course they will be picked apart and disagreed with by many, and in this case I disagree with Kristol as much as anyone here,  but so what?  It's his opinion, it's not disguised or misrepresented for anything other than what it is.  

To say he changed his mind or is being inconsistent in his argument may be fodder for Comedy Central skewering, but not much more.

 

Tommy, the point is that if Kristol had acknowledged that he had changed his mind, then there would be no reason for MMFA to post this. What makes it relevant is the fact that he makes no attempt to review the position he had two weeks ago. He's trying to come across as one of the new star struck Palin fans who gush over her as if she had just risen from the sea in the shell of a clam while ignoring all the criticisms he rightly voiced before because now the conservative hivemind demands it.  

The point is, it's helping further the conservative agenda.

How is it that you still don't understand this simple concept?

If Bill Kristol previously held the position that experience was necessary and valuable, and now he is ignoring that previous stance, it's because he's trying to make her look better than she deserves to look!

Making her look better, more appealing, more qualified for the nomination, furthers the conservative agenda!

And you distracting people from discussing the issue, and instead having them discuss your WITH comment, furthers your agenda.

"A columnist's opinion that you don't happen to agree with is not misinformation, it is a difference of opinion"

Absolutely.  And it's MMFA's OPINION that his flip-flopping on his opinion constitutes misinformation.  It's their OPINION and they ARE entitled to state it...especially on their own website.

And it's Kristol's opinion that Palin is not qualified. He said so himself.

The opinion that Palin is qualified is gaining some traction. Kristol needs to use his column to head that off.

They are being held in Karl Rove's basement till after the election.

I knew it!

I wanna know how Jeter knows this information......just sayin'. :-) 

Ha! You're such a jokester my sweet Julia. You know darn right well that you & I are sitting in Karl Rove's basement together guarding these two Con renegades with our guns drawn...of course I could concentrate a whole lot better if you'd stop rubbing my leg :-O

...of course I could concentrate a whole lot better if you'd stop rubbing my leg :-O

 

• - jeter2 / Monday September 8, 2008 7:10:16 PM EDT
• - Reply to this comment / Flag this comment 

 

Why in the name of everything that's good would I stop at just rubbing your leg? Jeez. :-0)

I hope they've got a shower in this here basement.

I could use a cold one :-)

Just be glad it wasn't this basement:

www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL2727651520080427 - 69k

:-/

 

 

 

Hey UK, how ya doin? We haven't caught up with each other in awhile.

That link didn't work...I got Page Not Found.

What was it of?

Or, maybe that's what the man-sized safe in Cheney's office is for.

Now c'mon folks - give Billy a break. Has ANYONE considered that in the interim between those 2 columns, Palin gained enough experience to become qualified??

 More double standard  BS from KRISTOL  who is nothing more than a REPUBLICAN mouthpiece.