"I think that John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage from that unfortunate experience in his early military life'

Thankfully Barack Obama does not exemplify, nor would he ever say something so stupid,  the incredible disrespect that Jimmy Carter does.  And thankfully people don't care what Jimmy Carter says anymore now than they ever did.   

Obama might not say it, but it's true.

Of course it's true. And this isn't the first time McCain milked his POW gravytrain...

PHOENIX — A newcomer to Arizona, John McCain used his wife's wealth, ties to powerful Washington figures and, most of all, the emotional power of his five years in a Vietnamese prison to launch his political career 25 years ago.

Well-known today, McCain's harrowing experience during the Vietnam War was new to voters in his 1982 race for an open congressional seat. McCain saturated local TV with an ad focused on his military record that showed him getting off a plane on crutches shortly after his release as a POW.

"It showed he was a hero. It would bring tears to your eyes," said rival candidate Ray Russell, a veterinarian who finished second in the Republican primary that year.

In his 2002 book "Worth the Fighting For," McCain himself acknowledged his strategy: "Thanks to my prisoner of war experience, I had, as they say in politics, a good first story to sell."

"milking" is too good of a word to describe this egocentric fool.

Of course it's true.

I'm still waiting for Tommy to explain how it's disrespectful for Carter to accurately point out that McCain is milking being a POW for dishonest causes, trying to make himself look better than he deserves to look. Here's his comment, when challenged why it's dishonest. Classic Tommy, saying that the problem is that we wouldn't understand it or we wouldn't accept any answer he gave - it's an opinion, anyway, so why should any of us be able to challenge his opinion? Reality? There is no reason to call it dishonest, and so he can't give us a legit answer to the question!!!

The disrespect in such remarks speak for themselves, do you think I would ever convince you of that? It's a simple difference of opinion, you don't agree, so be it.

• - tommy / Friday August 29, 2008 2:55:51 PM EDT

"There is no reason to call it dishonest, and so he can't give us a legit answer to the question!!!"

OK Sue, I know you can't go one week without a lie, and you managed to slip it in Friday afternoon, so at least you're consistent.  Can you please point out where I said Carter was being "dishonest" in their speaking of McCain?   

No, you can't. And poof, along with your old screennames, up in smoke again. But you entertain like no other, so I hope your mouth doesn't get you banned for awhile, I am rather enjoying watching your arguments implode. 

Give me a break. I meant disrespect, it's what we've all been pointing out that you won't explain, and I mistype and say "dishonest", and you can't figure it out?

How lame is that, that you couldn't figure out I meant disrespect, not dishonest?

So, anytime now you can explain why it's disrespectful, Tommy. 

I won't expect an apology for your insult and your mistake about what I meant, since I did type the wrong word, even though it was clear from your initial post, and from other content inside my post, that I was talking about 'disrespect' and not 'dishonest'. I'm willing to let it stand that you were just so inflamed by your temper that you couldn't see straight or process information coherently. You have that problem many days, but especially on Fridays.

Unless you aren't here because you don't work weekends, and almost never show up here unless you're getting paid.

B. B...Well said...  This guy has way over used his get outa jail free card. He is desperate and is starting to sound alot like our coward in chief. Dems need to take gloves off and bury these guys!..yfb

Gretchen Carlson lied? Again?

I'm shocked, shocked I say.

Come on, Gretchen, get the facts before you open your mouth.

Gretchen, here's some FACTS for you. Read and learn something for a change.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/08/29/mccain-talks-pow/

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837074,00.html

 

You honestly don't think after coming here for how long now, and reading the things printed here, that McCain is not milking his POW status for the presidency? Stunning actually, stunning...

Out of simple respect, it's totally unnecessary to say something so disrespectful.  You have no idea what Obama believes but does not say, so I take him at his word and the fact that he has never uttered anything close to this.  He has more class than that, and more brains.

What I meant in my comment, and I wasn't clear, was that I believe that McCain is milking his POW experience for political gain. To argue otherwise is disingenuous, and totally not looking at what he has said during his campaign, even during his whole house kerfuffle of last week, his campaign said McCain didn't even have a house when he was a POW, and I've heard them say things about how dare Obama attack McCain's policies, he was a POW you know (paraphrasing here of course). McCain is wielding his POW status as a cudgel against anyone who dare question him about anything. If that's not for political gain, I'm not sure what is.

I don't impugn McCain for his service, and I respect his service to this country as a Naval Aviator, and also as a Senator, but that doesn't mean I have to respect how he's using his favored status as a former POW to try and further his goal of becoming President.

Is it possible to even MENTION McCain's constant POW plays without being considered disrespectful, Tommy? Because that certaionly seems like what you are saying.

Why mention it all in that context?  You don't see any of the candidates complaining that he talks about it too much, in fact they go out of their way to praise him for his service.  Why does it bother some of you so much?  It's not smart politics to do so, it's not relevant to do so, it's just biting off your nose to spite your face, in my opinion.  Carter has just given the right a great present, to bat this around talk radio and Fox for days, and he has nobody to blame but himself.  And then there are his defenders running around trying to validate it or rationalize it, newflash - it's stupid.  And nothing but a distraction, in McCain's favor.

"Why mention it all in that context?"

Because McCain does.  If he TRULY didn't like to talk about, he wouldn't talk about it.  THEN there would be no reason to bring it up in ANY "context."  HE makes is a discussable part of his campaign by MENTIONING IT in "that context" so often.

Next to picking Jim Hensley to be his father-in-law, being captured and taken POW was the best political career move John McCain ever made. If that's disrespectful then too bad...see what Republicans say about Barack Obama. It's the truth...without Hensley or his POW experience McCain would be an obscure, bitter old man still getting in bar fights.

And let's not forget, republicans only respect military service when it serves their political pandering. This has to be one of my favorite ironies of the year:

BELLAVIA: Sen. Hagel has never been shot at in Iraq, he’s never seen what an IED looks like or been detonated on. This is an individual that could embed himself instead of doing a two-day congressional delegation. Go out there, walk with the troops, see what’s going on on the ground. […]

Now, again, with Sen. Hagel — my problem with Sen. Hagel is, again, his experienced is based on what? The Mekong Delta. It’s based to Vietnam, a totally different fight, a totally different enemy, and by the way, it was 30 years ago.

Why anybody would even suggest that saying McCain milking his service could be bad juju is beyond me, because republicans can and will attack military service with a venom and hatred that would make beelzebub blush.

Very well said. If McCain had not been shot down and put in a prison camp for five and a half years where would he be today. He sure as hell wouldn't be running for President.

Tommy,

This is somewhat off-topic, but what do YOU think about the way McCain milks his POW status?  I'm disgusted by McCain's pandering and flip-flops, but I find his use of his experience as a POW as a shield to be just as bad as those who denigrated Kerry's military experience.

OK, I think you responded while I was typing my question.  Kudos to your mind-reading ability.  ;-)

What I don't understand is how it's disrespectful.

Just like I don't understand how Democrats don't respect the sacrifice of our soldiers if we don't think we should continue our presence in Iraq.

Just like I don't think we all want open borders if we don't agree with draconian immigration measures.

Just like I know we don't want lots of abortions just because we want women to have the choice to control whether or not they have to remain pregnant!

It's not disrespectful to point out that John McCain is using his POW status dishonestly to portray him as something he's not. His POW status is only one small part of his character and history, and it is not an indicator of much when it comes to how he'd be as President, yet he brings it up over and over again.

President Carter said "I think that John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage from that unfortunate experience in his early military life." How is that disrespectful? McCain is trying to gain credibility in ways that are dishonest and irrelevant to his history as a POW.

"It's not disrespectful to point out that John McCain is using his POW status dishonestly to portray him as something he's not"

Do you ever run out of nonsense Sue, that is perhaps one of the most insipid comments you've ever made.  Do you think McCain is lying about his POW service?  Do you think he was really locked in the bedroom of a Hollywood Hilton instead of Hanoi, because that would be one way to "portray him as something he's not?" 

Or do you have inside information about his time there being cushy and plush, because that would be one way to "portray him as something he's not?" 

Go back to NomoBush, or one of your other aliases, you made more sense. 

What a fool you often make of yourself on Fridays, and this Friday is no exception.

Your lack of reading comprehension is not my burden to bear. I said "It's not disrespectful to point out that John McCain is using his POW status dishonestly to portray him as something he's not."

That's what I meant. I know he's a POW. Duh! He's been using his POW status dishonestly to portray himself as someone who has leadership skills. The fact that he was a POW says nothing about his leadership skills. He's been using his POW status to claim that he's the best candidate to support vet issues, but the two things are wholly unrelated, and it's dishonest for him to claim that they are related. He's been using his POW status to escape scrutiny for any number of questionable choices or lapses in memory or accountability - that's a dishonest way to escape an accurate portrayal of who he is.

And what do you do? When you can't defeat the message, you attack the messenger, even if that messenger isn't the banned poster you claim she is. That's what slimy Republicans do all the time, and that's what you do all the time too. Fine bedfellows you associate with, Tommy.

" He's been using his POW status dishonestly to portray himself as someone who has leadership skills."

You are so incredibly arrogant and clueless, it's astounding.  Who do you think you are to tell any voter what they will determine it takes to makes a good leader, or how to evaluate leadership skills?  You can dismiss it if you want but it may be quite relevant to someone else.  You have no authority to make that judgment for anyone else.  My God Sue, grow up.

It's a fact, not my opinion.

Being a POW doesn't give one any leadership skills or anything that would lead one to believe that they'd be a good President.

You're the one who loses it on Fridays or when challenged by me, and you lose it so badly that you have delusions that I'm some banned poster who scared the crap out of you long ago.

And here's my full comment, in context. Tommy is both dishonest and not deserving respect.

He's been using his POW status dishonestly to portray himself as someone who has leadership skills. The fact that he was a POW says nothing about his leadership skills.

The fact is that he was a POW says nothing about his leadership skills. Nothing. That's not my opinion, that's a fact.

Others might have the opinion that they'll give his POW status some weight, and that's their choice to have that opinion, but it's a fact that being a POW says nothing about what kind of leader you'll be.

"Who do you think you are to tell any voter what they will determine it takes to makes a good leader, or how to evaluate leadership skills?"

Back at 'cha.  Who are YOU to tell her she CAN'T use McCain's harping on his POS experience to determine whether she thinks he'll make a good leader or not?

It's her OPINION and she's entitled to express it.

Absolutely. McCain milks his service, and when it comes to discussions about how "he doesn't like to talk about it", I think a more apt truth is he doesn't want his conduct as a POW revealed. Apparently he violated his military code of conduct oath within days of being captured in exchange for hospital care. He hadn't even been tortured yet...

And thankfully people don't care what Jimmy Carter says anymore now than they ever did. -Tommy

Did you copy this sentence from a Bush speech? ;-)

By the way, I respect Carter and listen to his remarks with interest.

Carter has a lot more to say than Tommy does.

And I say that out of a lack of respect for Tommy.

"Carter has a lot more to say than Tommy does."

And says it a LOT better, too.

Coincidentally, my local weekly came out last night, and printed this blasphemy! (Down around Loretta Sanchez' pic). A Republican giving props to Jimmy Carter ! (along with the GOP follow up Carter- hating).

I respect Carter quite a bit, too Mary. I guess some of us forgot to consult with Tommy about who we care about.

There is no disrespect in pointing out McCain's shameless repetition of his POW experience as an answer to every question. Good for Jimmy Carter. That's why I like the old geezers, they quit worrying about the repercussions of being honest.

Fine Col.  But when Fox and Rush and the rest extrapolate Carter's idiotic comment to all Democrats, including Obama, and you and MMFA start whining about the media covering it, or misinterpreting it, it will be nothing but holllow bellyaching.  See how well the voters, the independent voters that Obama needs to win, see how they feel about it.  Obviously not the way hard liberals such as yourself do, who applaud it.  But you aren't the ones Obama is trying to convince.  

It's no wonder the left has such a hard time winning presidential elections, they hand their opponent a sword and then whine when it's used against them. 

You use that word "whine" a lot Tommy. Rush and the rest of his goons can make stuff up out of whole cloth, it doesn't matter what the other side says, they'll just re-phrase it into the strawman they want.

It sounds like you're suggesting honest criticism of McCain should be withheld because Rush Limbaugh will point it out and call it disrespectful.

I'd prefer that people, like Carter, freely tell the truth. And if the wingnut media starts "whining" that it's disrespectful, others can "whine" that they're full of crap.

And don't mention that I'm a hard liberal anymore. We're not supposed to know each other except on the internets.

"Rush and the rest of his goons can make stuff up out of whole cloth, it doesn't matter what the other side says, they'll just re-phrase it into the strawman they want"

What exactly do these goons need to make up or rephrase about what Carter said, exactly?  Seems like a simple verbatim quote is enough. 

Yeah, this quote by itself(spoon fed by Rush to his idiots) will be convincing. I meant in other cases,even when somebody hasn't said something offensive to the far right (i.e., true) as Carter did, Rush just makes up stuff that he imagines they said, and his listeners get mad at that stuff.

If you think the way for the Dems to win an election is by not hurting con feelings, I won't argue with you. I'm hungry, it must be lunchtime.

verbatim quote "I think that John McCain is milking every possible drop of advantage from that unfortunate experience in his early military life." 

what is stupid or idiotic about the quote as you said in your previous posts? 

Or disrespectful, don't forget that.

But when Fox and Rush and the rest extrapolate Carter's idiotic comment to all Democrats...

What exactly was idiotic about Carter's comments? Carter only said what is plainly visible to many, many people who have noticed McCain's POW pandering long before Carter gave voice to it on a national stage.

It was idiotic because it was absolutely politically stupid, for one.  And I know you can't see the disrespect in it Irony, considering your comments about how "being captured and taken POW was the best political career move John McCain ever made".  This Carter comment pales by your standards.

The truth hurts sometimes, Tommy...

Considering your irrational loathing of John McCain, and if enough voters are turned off by such Carter-esque comments that they pull the lever for McCain, then you will have won, won't you.  All this truth about McCain's POW days will be out.  Oh, and he may be president.  

I kind of think that 4 year truth will sting you everyday.... 

McCain is a complete fraud, Tommy. Any self-respecting man would not trivilaize his POW experience the way John McCain has. McCain will say or do anything to get elected. John McCain lost my respect a long time ago.

McCain is a complete fraud, Tommy. Any self-respecting man would not trivilaize his POW experience the way John McCain has. McCain will say or do anything to get elected. John McCain lost my respect a long time ago.

This isn't about who respects McCain or not, it's about winning and losing elections.  You will never win on dissing McCain's service, most people will see it as a cheap political personal shot and it will only work in McCain's favor, surely you see that.  It doesn't mean the right won't haul out the kitchen sink against Obama, of course they will, but calling McCain "milking" his service may just rub enough people the wrong way and he gets the sympathy vote if nothing else.

Are you prepared to pay the price of a McCain presidency just so you can see him get what you think he deserves?  Because that is a very real possibility, in a very close election. 

And Tommy still never explained how it was idiotic.

It was idiotic because it was absolutely politically stupid, for one.

Why is it politically stupid, though? Why is it idiotic? Why is it disrespectful?

Don't expect an answer from him.

Tommy, I doubt very seriously if my opinions will sway this election. For the record, I do not loathe John McCain...I just have little respect for him because an examination of his life proves to me he's an ordinary, garden variety, money grubbing politician. And the way he has tried to use his POW experience in the political arena is shameless IMO. So I'll keep saying what I think...

BTW, you still have not answered why Jimmy Carter's comments were stupid and idiotic...

The disrespect in such remarks speak for themselves, do you think I would ever convince you of that? It's a simple difference of opinion, you don't agree, so be it.

I don't think "disrespect" for McCain will win him voters.  He suffered terribly in Vietnam and it's painful to hear him bringing this up so often now as a campaign tactic.

But I'm glad that Obama is taking the high road as his speech made clear.  I think all the democrats should stick to that. 

" I think all the democrats should stick to that"

Thank you Mary, that is my point exactly.  Which is why Carter's comments are at best ill-advised, and stupid. 

"Carter's comments are at best ill-advised, and stupid."--tommy

They are just "ill-advised" and "stupid" to be true.  I am usually suspicious of people who can't handle the truth.

You will never win on dissing McCain's service, says Tommy.

Carter wasn't dissing his service though.

Are you a caption writer for FoxNews in your spare time away from this 40 hour a week job derailing threads at Media Matters?

Carter was dissing his milking of his POW status to falsely inflate his credentials and qualifications. You still have never explained how it's disrespectful, becuase you can't, because it isn't.

Totally agree, COL. We all recognize Jimmy Carter's real contributions as a former US President and agree with his remarks about McCain's constant use of his POW status as a REASON for electing him. Few posters have said anything about how Bush/Rove used that experience to destroy McCain in 2000. Too many supporters of the right use the POW title as a sacred event, like the Stations of the Cross in a Catholic Church. The allusion to the suffering of Jesus is not lost on me. O.K., already! I respect that McCain spent all those horrible years as a Prisoner of War. What in the Holy Name of

Our Lady of the Bleeding Heart does that have to do with being President???? The real answer is, NOTHING! It has everything to do with getting elected. But, COL., i take exception to your disrespectful use of the term "geezer". I have been a geezer for some time, now. Doesn't mean I'm not a nice person.

And I'm on my way to geezerhood, DMaddog. I'll see you there!

Jimmy Carter was a great president, but you need to turn off Fox News and actually research the period to understand that.   Or are you still suffering from the delusion Carter caused the recession starting in the early 1970s?

Just on the always-reliable FoxNews cable network this morning, Governor Sanford was saying the same thing, and the FoxNews reporter who was interviewing him didn't point out that it's untrue - I can't imagine why not!

Sanford said that McCain doesn't bring the subject up in private conservations, and only talks about it when asked. But the issue isn't what he does in private. It's what he's done as a candidate that's being discussed here! It's what he and his campaign are trying to portray themselves as that matters. So it's what McCain does in a campaign environment that matters, and so much of the time it's noun, verb, POW. He not only is bringing it up, but he's bringing it up when it has no relevance! No one disputes that he had it rough in the Hanoi Hilton. It has no bearing on him not knowing how many homes he and his wife share currently (and it doesn't matter whose name is on the deed, rightie trolls).  But it's been the campaign's response and even his personal response when questioned about him not knowing how many homes he and Cindy share!

Jimmy Carter speaks inconvenient truths...he is a true maverick. Not the phony, pandering John McCain who milks his POW experience, politically, for everything it's worth. And then he has his flunkies spread the word that he doesn't like to talk about it. Doesn't like to talk about it? You can't shut the old f**ker up! What a fraud! 

Here is a beaut from McCain in a debate 30 years ago:

“I wish I could have had the luxury, like you, of growing up and living and spending my entire life in a nice place like the first district of Arizona, but I was doing other things,” he said. “As a matter of fact, when I think about it now, the place I lived longest in my life was Hanoi.”

LENO: Welcome back, Sen. McCain, for one million dollars, how many houses do you have? (Jay laughs, McCain squirms and chuckles)

MCCAIN: You know, could I just mention to you, Jay, and a moment of seriousness. I spent five and a half years in a prison cell, without—I didn’t have a house, I didn’t have a kitchen table, I didn’t have a table, I didn’t have a chair. And I spent those five and a half years, because—not because I wanted to get a house when I got out.

not because I wanted to get a house when I got out.

Well, dumping your crippled wife for a 24 year old babe whose felonious father just happened to have bags of money and tons of Republican influence in Arizona (where you never lived previously) seems to have worked okay for you, Johnny...

BTW, Johnny, exactly how many houses DO you own?

Hey Moe, Larry and Curly - here's a news flash - McCain does milk his time as a POW for all it's worth...and then some.  By the way, he's doing it to get elected.  You three might want to take notes.

U.S. Senator Sam Brownback read the following letter on behalf of John McCain at the March for Life in Washington, D.C. on the 35th Anniversary of the Roe vs. Wade Decision.

 

 

Dear Fellow Pro-Lifers,

 

 

I join you today in marking the 35th anniversary of the tragic Roe vs. Wade decision made on January 22, 1973. I salute you for taking the time to show that the cause of Life is alive and well in the hearts of millions of Americans.

 

 

As a prisoner of war at the hands of a communist dictatorship, I saw firsthand the perils faced when human dignity and human life are not respected.

Respect for life?  Like Ms. Palin, who abandons her down syndrome afflicted baby, and other children, to run for the most demanding job in the world? 

Republican respect for human life:  It's born, kick it out of the nest.

The old switcheroo, noble gas geographic feature!

Jimmy Carter, whom I have the utmost respect for because of his exemplary career of civil service after his presidency (more than I can say for other ex-Presidents who fulfilled their years with building museums that touted their grandness), hit the nail on the head--squarely.  McCain has used the POW card consistantly and without remorse, or accuracy.  What is bothersome about it is not the constant reference to his hero status (he's no more a hero than any other soldier who did their duty), but the things the McCain campaign DOES'NT talk about or bring up.  Things like the nearyl 30 anti-American propoganda films McCain made for the enemy.  Things like the fact that he was known as "the songbird" for his willingness to capitulate to the enemy's demands.  Things like providing the enemy with "factual and accurate" strategic information.  Things like the reports from his former POW's who have consistantly refuted McCain's "history" of who and what he was in Hanoi.  Things like the fact that the true story of McCain in Vietnam will never be seen by the general public due to McCain's own Senate bill that forever seals his debriefing--much to the heartbreak of the families of MIAs and POWs who would use these "forever sealed" documents to find closure or answers to the whereabouts and condition of their loved ones.  Some hero. 

HEYOGIRL: Can you provide details? I have heard similar charges, but am afraid to bring them up because of my lack of concrete evidence. If this is mere hearsay and/or smears, I want no part of it, but if it is true it should be exposed. Links, please.

HEYOGIRL: I have been doing some in-depth research about McCain's POW history. I found out that the accusations you made are false and highly defamatory. I am no fan of John McCain and do not, under any circumstances, want to see him in the White House, but we, as honorable liberals, cannot resort to the tactics used by slime like Corsi or Rove. I strongly suggest you do not persist in this kind of distortion of McCain or his POW experiences. If we lose this election, it may well be that we did not resort to the dishonorable attacks that would assure victory, but at least we will remain honorable. Winning by those means would certainly leave a foul taste in our mouths and a stench in our White House.

Republicans are now just one Justice away from rewriting the constitution, thanks to campaigning with no honour for the past thirty years.

In an interview with KDKA radio in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, John McCain POW-POW-POWed when asked about charges that he's an elitist who's out of touch with the American worker on kitchen-table issues.

McCain: Well you know I have town hall meetings all the time, everywhere across this country, and I hear from people....

And in all due respect my friends, I know what it's like to not have a house, I know what it's like not to have a kitchen table. I know what it's like not to have a table or a chair. For five and a half years, I sat in a cell with nothing but concrete floor and three boards to sleep on.

I'm actually beginning to think perhaps John McCain has some unresolved emotional issues as a result of his POW experience. Shouldn't the medical records of his treatment for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder after he was released be made public? I think that's a legitimate expectation...

IRONY: Remember 2000? Exactly how Bush & Gang got rid of McCain.

Maybe Bush was onto something, Dog. I remember hearing one Republican Congressman from Mississippi (I think) saying basically that McCain was a nut job but that his colleagues cut him slack because he'd been locked up for five years.

He's reticent to talk about it.

Beautifully accurate...! 

Beautifully accurate...! 

Former President Carter and Senator McCain are both graduates of the Naval Academy.  President Carter's service to his country is beyond reproach, especially by a partisan hack like Steve Doocy.  Lieutenant Commander Carted did not have "his finger on the button" as Doocy said, but PRESIDENT Carter did.  But he used his time in office to bring warring sides together and bring peace - remember the Camp David accords and the fact that Egypt has not engaged in hostile action in the Middle East since then.  Maybe if he had danced around singing "bomb bomb Iran", or crashed his sub and been taken prisoner, the right wing gas bags would remember him more fondly - or at least more accurately. 

When McCain, referring to Woodstock, said, "I was tied up at the time" at the debate, I thought it was a good, effective joke.

But when he said on This Week, "I did have a period of time where I didn’t have very good government health care" to dodge a legitimate question, I winced at McCain's exploitation of his POW experience. And, unfortunately, he keeps exploiting it.

BTW, what did John McCain do as a POW? Are there specific acts of heroism that I'm unaware of? Did he lead a prison revolt or escape attempt?

IRONY, Read my response to HEYOGIRL's post about McCain's experiences as a POW in Hanoi.

What's the POW equivalent of a purple heart band aid?  When Democrats figure that out and do it to mock McCain, only then can Fox News and guys like Tommy whine that Jimmy Carter is being mean.  Until then, shut up.