Newsflash to Chicken Noodle News: Something doesn't become a FACT just because you put the word FACT in front of it!

(And to all Republicans... Niether do beliefs and/or opinions become FACTS just because they are deeply held or widely shared!)

 -- He refused to endorse Bill Clinton and he wanted to give an entire speech about abortion, and nobody wants a 30-minute speech about abortion at a Democratic convention. -- Begala

Begala did not debunk any myth. He clearly stated that there were 2 reasons for denying Casey the speaking slot...one of which was his position on abortion....making it correct to say so...after all nobody wants a 30 min. speech on abortion at the dem. convention.

You're right Wes, and I really doubt that Casey wanted to talk for 30 minutes on abortion, in spite of his pro-life stance.  That is a myth put forth by Begala if you ask me.

"Here's all you need to know in order to know with absolute certainty that Casey's views on abortion were not the reason he was not given a speaking role: that very same Democratic convention featured speeches by at least eight people who shared Casey's anti-choice position, including Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley Jr., Sens. John Breaux and Howell Heflin, and five governors."

As I've stated in other threads before, those other people never even addressed the issue of abortion, nor did they have any desire to.

The key difference is that Gov. Casey wished to deliver a pro-life SPEECH in which he would oppose his party's position on abortion. That would have been a disaster for Democrats, so they banished him. It's that simple.

LINK

But that's not the reason being given today by the media.

As the CNN chyron clearly and falsely says, it was his position, not his desire to give a speech about abortion.

It's that simple.

The only thing around here that's simple is your mind, Shoes.

What mind?!  Shoes' shoe size is bigger than his IQ, he sold his integrity and honesty to the lying Republicans a long time ago.

You've been wrong every time you have tried to spring this lie on us, and you're wrong now.

They say mental illness is doing the same thing multiple times, looking for different results.

Every time you lie, you'll get the same result.

Begala did not debunk any myth. He clearly stated that there were 2 reasons for denying Casey the speaking slot...one of which was his position on abortion....making it correct to say so...after all nobody wants a 30 min. speech on abortion at the dem. convention.

Begala DID NOT say it Casey's position on abortion; he said it was his demand to give a 30 minute speech discussing that position. NOT THE SAME.

No good, pete...I read your circular link (mmfa defenders relying on mmfa articles)...and no where does it say that any of those pro-choice democrats allowed to speak...actually delivered a speech on abortion.

Begala says it loud and clear...no one wanted a 30 minute speech against abortion at the democrat convention...sayonarah Casey.

Maybe this will end these endless threads on this topic, ya think?

But the media is saying it was his position, not his desire to give a speech on abortion that cost him the chance to speak.

Pete, It's like this.  If Speaker A is pro-life and wants to give a speech with no mention of his stance on abortion, fine. If Speaker B is pro-life and wants to give a speech with mention of his pro-life stance, but denied.......then logically Speaker B is not allowed to speak because of his pro-life stance.

Clear as a bell...

Well king, this case is closed.

Well king, this case is closed.

The only thing around here that's closed, Wesley, is your mind.

Nope, sorry. You're still wrong, because the media still has it wrong.

Actually, no. In your example, he is denied because he wants to mention his pro-life stance, not because he is pro-life. Also, Casey wanted to more than "mention" his pro-life stance, he reportedly wanted to devote the entire speech to.

Right. He wanted to condemn the party plank. They knew this, and didn't let him speak on that. It wasn't just his position, it was his advocacy. Perfectly appropriate.

 

Jumpin' Jeebus, you guys have got to be pulling our legs now. Tommy, read your own post above;

Two people have something in common.

They're treated differently.

Logically (according to Tommy) they're treated differently because of the

thing they had in common. Don't know what happened there.

You're right Wes, and I really doubt that Casey wanted to talk for 30 minutes on abortion, in spite of his pro-life stance.  That is a myth put forth by Begala if you ask me.

- tommy

Not so-- they had a copy of the speech. They knew.

Ah, facts..... 

Just like they would never allow Chuck Hagel to give an anti-war speech at the Republican Convention.

Aren't the parties allowed to set the agenda for their own conventions?

When was the last time either party gave time to someone who wanted to speak against the platform? 

 -- Aren't the parties allowed to set the agenda for their own conventions? -- king

Of course they are, king...That's one of the reasons why Casey was not allowed to speak...abortion.

WRONG!!!!

Casey was not allowed to speak because he refused to endorse Bill Clinton.  Other speakers at that convention were also anti-abortion, so your srgument is shown for the pack of lies that it is, Wesley.

Take it up with mmfa and Begala if you want to call someone a liar.

Begala is explicit that there were two reasons for not allowing Casey to speak...His non-endorsement of Clinton and his request to speak against abortion.

No matter how often mmfa drags out this dodge...it doesn't gain any traction except with radicals being spoon fed liberal pablum.

And what of the other eight speakers at that same convention who share Casey's position on abortion?

Simple...they were muffled and not allowed to speak on abortion...and they didn't.

But speech content is not the reason we're being given today, as exemplified by the CNN chyron. 

Be pro-life and request a speaking slot on abortion...you're 86'd from the dais.

Be pro-life and request a speaking slot...but promise to remain silent on abortion...voila...hello dais.

Were the other speakers completely silent on abortion?

Do you have the transcripts? 

You brought up the other 8 speakers...kinda got yourself out on a limb, huh.

Here's a little homework for you...find the transcripts to back up your own rhetoric...or join the other deniers for a card party at Davy Jones address.

As usual, you're taking the burden of proof away from the accuser.

Your accusing the DNC of muffling and censoring any and all pro-life rhetoric.  You have no proof of this. 

Hey, who needs proof when you've got Rovian talking points?

This is the key point. Every party, at every convention, has controlled the content of the speeches given. Nothing unusual about that.

But the wingnuts are trying to present this as an issue of thought control and purging the Democratic Party of revisionists and other impurities. They falsely claim that, just because of his position on abortion, Casey was prevented from speaking at all.

The only "thought control" was practiced by the democrats...want to speak against abortion?...no way no how.

"nobody wants a 30-minute speech about abortion at a Democratic convention." -- Begala, big democrat honcho

 

And on top of that, I hear they wouldn't let Newt Gingrich speak, just because of his views.

Can you beat that?  I mean, what kind of Democratic pep rally were they running back then, anyway?

Boy, those dems.

Begala; "He refused to endorse Bill Clinton and he wanted to give an entire speech about abortion......"

Yepper Wes, and I was a little unclear about all of this due to the hand-wringing of late by MMFA, glad to see Begala finally set the record straight, now if he could only do the same to some here. 

I doubt it. Begala torpedoes mmfas argument...sending it to Davy Jones locker...but that won't dissuade mmfa and some of their followers from their deluded position.

Glub, glub, glub.

 

"I doubt it. Begala torpedoes mmfas argument...sending it to Davy Jones locker...but that won't dissuade mmfa and some of their followers from their deluded position."

That's true only if you believe that:

1)Two reasons are exactly the same as one

2)There's no difference between beliefs and behavior

That would be deluded.

But Begala doesn't say it had anything to do with Casey's position on  abortion, but had everything to do with his speech content.  Meanwhile, 8 other speakers who share Casey's view were allowed to speak.

Take it up with mmfa and Begala if you want to call someone a liar.

You lie with every useless post you make here, Wesley.  Your positions are nothing BUT lies.

Take it up with mmfa and Begala if you want to call someone a liar.

Their permission is not required to call a liar a liar.

Wesley, you're lying. What does that make you?

Abortion didn't allow Casey to speak? Mean old abortion.

Come on Wesley, this isn't one of your better attempts at twisting.

Wesley, maybe I'm missing it, but where does Begala state that the reason was Casey's position on abortion?

Saw Wesley in a restaurant the other evening.  I ordered a Big Mac, fries, and a Coke.  He asked me if I wanted to supersize it, and I declined, to which he accused me of disliking french fries.

Go figure...

OK, Argon, Wesley never answered my simple question. I accept his surrender, and he can go back to saying "glub glub" in place of any logic.

But let's see how far we can dumb it down (I think Tommy actually understood this at one point, but he seems to be feedng off Wesley's confusion) I'll continue with your Golden Arches theme;

Hey Argon, I thnk I was behind you in line that night, and Wesley was manning the register. It was free dessert night, and he gave me a choice of two; a hot fudge sundae (Mickey D's ice-cream style white glutinous agent topped with hot fudge) or a cup of pig excrement, topped with hot fudge.

I chose the ice-cream like product.

Wesley (and trainee Tommy, working the hot fudge machinery) put on their logic hats, and deduced that I rejected the hot fudge pig poo based on one factor-- the hot fudge!

Keep up the great work, Boys!

CNN states as "fact" that Casey wasn't allow to speak because of "his position on abortion." No one has ever presented any evidence to confirm this.

Begala, who was personally involved in this, says Casey wasn't allowed to speak because 1. he wouldn't support Clinton, and 2. he demanded to give a 30 minute speech on the one subject of abortion. Having a position is NOT the same as demanding a thirty minutes speaking spot to discuss that position.

CNN presented a lie as a fact.

Wesley: "He clearly stated that there were 2 reasons for denying Casey the speaking slot...one of which was his position on abortion."

Correct, Wesley.

Again ... MM is not being forthcoming on this issue.

There are perhaps 2 reasons for him being denied:

1) He didn't endorse Clinton AND/OR
2) He wanted to devote his speech to his pro-life stance

The media is giving a 3rd possiblity:
3) He is pro-life.

Reasons 2 and 3 are NOT the same reason. If you believe they are then we can no longer go on with a reasonable discussion of this.

Exactly. Thank you.

Right on the mark, Appleboy.

Correct, Wesley.

Wesley's statement isn't anywhere near correct. And the liar Shoes knows it.

He clearly stated that there were 2 reasons for denying Casey the speaking slot...one of which was his position on abortion....making it correct to say so...after all nobody wants a 30 min. speech on abortion at the dem. convention. - Wesley

Wesley did not dispute any facts.  He clearly stated that there was a way for someone to misinterpret the 2 reasons that Begala gave for denying Casey the speaking slot...making complete nonsense...after all nobody wants to admit that they can't understand plain speech.

Wesley did not dispute any facts.  He clearly stated that there was a way for someone to misinterpret the 2 reasons that Begala gave for denying Casey the speaking slot

The only way to misinterpret what Begala clearly said would be if that misinterpreter is post-lobotomy.

Get well soon, Wesley.

Even if that had been the reason why is the media endlessly regurgitating what happened in1992? Because they are in the tank for McSame.

Begala did not debunk any myth. He clearly stated that there were 2 reasons for denying Casey the speaking slot

So if his speech wasn't about abortion, the Clinton campaign would have allowed him to speak even though Casey didn't endorse him?

It is a myth, and thankfully we have people like Paul Begala out there to put a dent in the lies. Sadly CNN still believes it is "FACT".

As for Matthews and MSNBC? They are hopeless.

Even if it's a little more sophisticated, the fact remains that he didn't support Clinton because of abortion, and he was going to deliver a long-winded speech on abortion.  Ergo, he was denied a speaking opportunity because of abortion.  There were other pro-life speakers and other folks who spoke that didn't support the ticket, but the confluence of Casey's lack of support and speech all trace back to his positions on abortion.  And again, many within the party were frustrated by the 1992 court battle over <i>Roe v. Wade</i>, <i>Planned Parenthood v. Casey</i>.

At any rate, it's a myth merely because Begala says so?  If this isn't sophistry I don't know what is!  <b>ROOT CAUSE OF BOTH REASONS:  ABORTION</b>  Though I'm sure it will earn me much scorn here, I may discontinue reading this site if this conjecture that there were other reasons Casey was barred from speaking continues.  There's plenty of real misinformation in the media to track down.  I've always thought this site was objective, but now I have to wonder if there's a platform-specific agenda.

Brian,

You must be new around these here parts?  MMFA objective?

Thanks for the chuckle. 

AA says MMfA isn't objective?

Thanks for the yawn.

I though for sure there would be a smiley face at the end of that post.  Oh well, maybe next time.

Oh how wrong you are. You see, if CNN and others in the media would say it was about abortion, that would be fine, but that is not at all what they are saying. They are saying it is his "pro-life position" that kept him from speaking. Total BS, without a doubt. Again, weather the otehr 8 speakers mentioned even one word about abortion, there positions were known at the time to be pro-life. So his objection to abortion could not possibly be ther reason. To be totally clear here are the 2 reasons he was not allowed to speak:

1. He did not endorse the party's candidate.

2. His speach content was not in line with what the party wanted.

Done. If that issue was abortion, or gun rights, or drilling in Anwar it makes no difference. The party did not want content that was out of line with the convention. Both parties do this so to pretend this shows the party is so "abortion friendly" that they would not let someone speak becuase of his beliefs is a flat out lie. STOP PRETENDING OTHERWISE.

"ROOT CAUSE OF BOTH REASONS:  ABORTION"

It doesn't matter that the root cause is the same.  Saying that he was denied a spot because of his views is not the same as saying he was denied because of his behavior.

The way this keeps being framed in the media is that it was unfair discrimination against him because of his opinion.  That is misinformation, no matter how you cut it. 

"Even if it's a little more sophisticated, the fact remains that he didn't support Clinton because of abortion, and he was going to deliver a long-winded speech on abortion.  Ergo, he was denied a speaking opportunity because of abortion.  There were other pro-life speakers and other folks who spoke that didn't support the ticket, but the confluence of Casey's lack of support and speech all trace back to his positions on abortion."

Let's expand on this a bit.  Imagine that you have an employee who misses a day of work without calling in.  The next day he comes in and apologizes, saying that his fiancee broke up with him.  How do you interpret that?  There's no way to think he meant anything other than personal despair, no way to read anything else into his words.  The implication is clear.

The same day you get a call from the police, asking about your employee.  It turns out he assaulted his ex-fiancee, putting her in the hospital, and set her car on fire.  He was in jail awaiting bail money the rest of the day.  So you call him into your office and tell him what you've found out.

He says:"Even if it's a little more sophisticated, the fact remains that I did what I did because she broke up with me.  Ergo, I didn't show up for work because of my fiancee breaking up with me.  There were other reasons that I couldn't make it into work, but the confluence of my beating her up and burning her car all trace back to her dumping me."

But you wouldn't feel like you were misled, because the root cause is the same, right?  I bet. 

Though I'm sure it will earn me much scorn here, I may discontinue reading this site if this conjecture that there were other reasons Casey was barred from speaking continues. - brian.kresge931

I don't think you'll get any "scorn", Brian.If the truth causes you to stop visiting a site, you'd probably be more comfortable at FreeRepublic or any number of right wing sites that will tell you just what you want to hear.

And don't worry about leaving a void here if you have to go. There's no shortage of conservative posters here  who will fight reality and logic to their last breath. They'll fight it here so it doesn't come to your house. 

Yah if that were to happen it might slightly dilute the talking point. We can't have that! Even if it might help with the democrats are fighting amongist themselves meme.

I've lost track of Yawnies current position on this. Has he moved from, its a human being right after the egg is fertilized position?

Fascinating. I thought even the slow kids had figured this one out by now.Apparently not.

 

Yes, now he, POW for five years without a table, says it's a human being when the egg and sperm are both within the same cheap motel room.

Facts are funny things.

GOP-CNN wants Liar McCain to be elected.  That's why they're continuing to put out this LIE about the late Gov. Casey being denied a speaking platform at the '92 convention.  Casey's refusal to endorse Clinton wasn't solely about a disagreement on abortion anyway.

Second, if the media's lie were true, which it ISN'T, Bob Casey wouldn't have spoken at the convention last night, AND more to the point, Bob Casey would have already left the Democratic Party by now, don't you think?

Note that Mark Shields on the PBS show Lehrer Newshour repeated the same claim. He even exacerbated it by exclaiming that while Obama will have only one anti-choice speaker, Casey, the GOP will have a bunch of pro-choice speakers. Notably, all the pro-choice speakers were high-profile elected republicans; Schwartzennegger, Guiliani, etc.

 

Ah-nold isn't making it to the convention this year.

And Giuliani's a nutball.  

BLITZER: "That myth has survived all of these years, Paul. Thanks for clarif -- clearing that up."

Ah yes, the passive voice, which if it were to suddenly disappear from the English language, the CorporateMedia would vanish in a puff of ghastly smoke as fast as the Wicked Witch of the West at the end of the Wizard of Oz. Somehow this myth's mysterious survival has Just Happened, without the assistance of Volfie or any of his cohort.

Oh, and also: the zombie myth survives anyway Paul. And Wolf: don't worry, you'll be repeating it yourself in no time as if Paul had never opened his yap, I'd be willing to bet serious money you do it within 24 hours, or at least that your chiron does.

Hasn't this thread been exhausted yet? This happened 16 years ago.  I know, it's important to some folks, but can't we move on with more current issues?  

When they stop repeating this crap in the media, you bet.  As long as they perpetrate the lie, it should be addressed.