Until Karl Rove advises him to...

A noun,  a verb and POW

"You know, he doesn't like to talk about when he was a POW or, for that matter, his religion"

WITH?  This is purely a matter of degree and perception.  For MMFA to take Carlson to task for this is ridiculous.  Some may think he avoids it, others may think he never shuts up about it.  Also, how does MMFA know whether or not McCain likes to talk about these things or not.  Fact is, they don't.  

Technically, you are right.  I cannot know if he likes to talk about his experience as a POW.  I do know, however, that he does talk about it a lot (even featured in his "Summer of Love" campaign ad).

I don't care how much or how little he talks about it.  It is part of his biography and who he is, I respect him and his service.  

But I will not be voting for or against him because of it, so in that context, for me, it's irrelevant.  It doesn't bother me if he wears a flashing neon sign around his neck "talking" about it nonstop.  Too bad it bothers the folks here so much, apparently. 

Too bad it bothers the folks here so much, apparently.

 

The fact that he spends lots of time and money promoting his prior status as a POW does not bother me at all.  I doubt it bothers anyone.  MM is simply correcting the falsehood as reports by what's-her-face.

...as reported by...

There is no falsehood. She didn't say he doesn't talk about it, she said he doesn't like to talk about it.  MMFA has no clue what McCain does or doesn't like, neither do any of us, especially something like this.

Did McCain's POW TV ad run against his will?

What an asinine comment.

Well, if you think McCain's "Love" commercial ran without his approval, I'd say that's assinine.

"I'm John McCain and [while I don't like it] I approve this message."

 

Is that better Tommy?  Did I fix his POW commercial enough for you?

"You know, he doesn't like to talk about when he was a POW or, for that matter, his religion"

WITH?  This is purely a matter of degree and perception.  For MMFA to take Carlson to task for this is ridiculous.  Some may think he avoids it, others may think he never shuts up about it.  Also, how does MMFA know whether or not McCain likes to talk about these things or not.  Fact is, they don't.  - tommy / Tuesday August 19, 2008 3:39:51 PM EDT

 

By that standard, how does Carlson know he doesn't like to talk about it? She is stating as fact something that (by your standard) she cannot possibly know, thus furthering the meme of McCain as only reluctantly talking about his POW experiences. This is well within MMFA's mission statement. 

And you are confident that Carlson has a primary source for her contention that McCain doesn't like talking about this subject?

I don't know whether he does or doesn't,  but it's MMFA, and some here, that get a burr in their bonnet every time somebody, somewhere mentions it.

Let it go......

I said that I agreed with ya. But let me ask you this:  How does Carlson know that he doesn't like talking about his POW experience?  Common sense would, of course, tell us no. 

 Yet, he might actually "like" talking about his experience because he could find it therapeutic and healing to get it out in the open.  Can she, unlike MMFA, read minds?  Although it might fit into the overall "Maverick" narrative, I would also have to say "With."

 

 

How does 'she' know he 'does not like' to talk about it? Did he tell her?

Id he did not, and she says 'he does not want to' talk about it, is that not misinformation? 

Tommy doesn't like to parse.

Since you brought up a similar point above - how does SHE know he doesn't like to talk about it?

If your position is he DOESN'T like to bring it up, how do you account for the frequency he does so? Is there someone controlling his actions and compelling him to speak about things which he'd rather not?

Some may think he avoids it, others may think he never shuts up about it.  Also, how does MMFA know whether or not McCain likes to talk about these things or not.  Fact is, they don't.  

I agree Tommy. I don't happen to think he overdoes it, but I suppose it's all in the ears of the beholder. If one doesn't like the guy then each time it comes up, it probably seems excessive...

I don't know that this POW stuff gets mentioned anymore than Obama being a community organizer does.

Both should be able to talk up their history. Hey there's an election campaign going on!!

And - just for the record - no one is claiming that McCain should not promote his POW time.  I think the issue here is that it's flat out wrong to report that he's somehow reluctant to go there.  He goes there early and often.  Good for him.

 

It could be the Foxite "strategery" to remind their possible undecideds that they have a real warrior on their roster. By claiming he doesn't talk about it, they are simply bringing it up again, POW.

I agree. I can't see how being a war hero, serving time in some hell-hole POW camp and refusing release on principle could hurt him unless he starts REALLY, REALLY beating us over the head with it. And as someone has already pointed out, one's preconceived opinion of McCain will likely be the deciding factor.

With that said, I would like to know what exactly constitutes McCain "talking about it." If an interviewer asks him questions about it, or another speaker at a public event mentions it, is that considered him "beating us with it?" Personally, out of all the times I've seen him and listened to him talk, all the information about his captivity that I've gotten specifically from him is that he was shot down, inprisoned for about 5 years in somewhat less luxury accommodations and was eventually released.

Everything other than that either came out of journalists mouths, articles and that movie about it. As far as I can see, simply confirming the fact or answering questions, and yes, maybe even referencing it himself, does not make him a manipulator or opportunist or whatever. See what I mean? It's not like he's constantly regaling us with stories of torture, or how bad the food or hygiene conditions were. You know?

I know that this is anything but a conservative site, and I'd never presume to try to tell anyone what to think (although there are plenty on the left and right who would and do, generally through lies and spin). But can't we at least give him the respect he's earned and not label him as a war-opportunist? One cannot justify bad behavior by pointing out others bad behavior; one cannot claim to have the moral highground on the premise that the right is deceiving those less informed while at the same time doing the same thing.

I don't think it him personally overdoing it (like Bush did not personally mock  Kerry's service in Vietnam). It's his campaign and the media, and he appears perfectly willing to bask in it.

On the 'cone of silence' one of his spokeswoman says 'how can you think McCain, a former POW' can cheat?' The 'former POW' part was gratuitous.

you: "I don't know that this POW stuff gets mentioned anymore than Obama being a community organizer does". 

I know it does.

 

I went to news.google.com and did 2 searches.

mccain AND pow gave 936 results and obama AND 'community organizer' gave 423 results. Very crude, but seems like McCain's POW status is lot more in the news than  Obama being a community organizer. 

Personally, I think that is the only card he has.

MMFA knows this about as well as so many repugniconvicts know that Obama is a closet Muslim, that he secretly is planning to murder every zygote conceived as of 1/21/2009, and damn near every accusation of the past ...

Some might even say he's spent 10s of 1000s of dollars advertising that he was a POW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpyOSLZw8qo 

Considering during McCain's sunday night performance near every single answer included the phrase "as a former POW"...

Snoop, once was enough. It's just not that funny.

But we're still buds :-)

Here Jeter, let me throw you a get JM out of trouble free card! ;)

The insinuation that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, would [                                   ] is outrageous.

Just fill in the blank with anything...

How about "As a former POW, I obviously don't like talking about being a former POW.

Snoop, try as I might I can't think of anything funny. Let's wait for the Colonel. Knowing his sense of humor I'm sure fill in the [blank] with something to make everyone laugh! ;-)

Sorry, Jeter. I got here late and I'm tired. I got nothing funny, and besides, that's a lot of pressure.

How about something unfunny but accurate?

...make an acceptable president.

Snoopy is exhibit A of the extreme vulgarity of Liberals

And you'd be exhibit A of the extreme stupidity and hipocracy of modern conservatives.

And you'd be exhibit A of the extreme stupidity and hipocracy of modern conservatives.

And I'm the very model of a modern major general......

I am the very model of a modern Major-General,
I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical;
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical,
About binomial theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse.
I'm very good at integral and differential calculus;
I know the scientific names of beings animalculous:
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
I know our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's;
I answer hard acrostics, I've a pretty taste for paradox,
I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus,
In conics I can floor peculiarities parabolous;
I can tell undoubted Raphaels from Gerard Dows and Zoffanies,
I know the croaking chorus from The Frogs of Aristophanes!
Then I can hum a fugue of which I've heard the music's din afore,
And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore.
Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you ev'ry detail of Caractacus' uniform:
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
In fact, when I know what is meant by "mamelon" and "ravelin",
When I can tell at sight a Mauser rifle[*] from a javelin,
When such affairs as sorties and surprises I'm more wary at,
And when I know precisely what is meant by "commissariat",
When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern gunnery,
When I know more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery—
In short, when I've a smattering of elemental strategy—
You'll say a better Major-General has never sat a-gee.
For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century;
But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major-General's_Song

But have you ever seen a modern major general performing rap?

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkJdEFf_Qg4

Quick, fainting couch needed in the NLT isle!  

Stat, EW. Wingnuts are really little-girly sensitive about the strangest things, eh?

Bombing & torture? Yay!

naughty words and medical procedures? get the smelling salts!

I am thinking that the evidence is out there that he doesn't mind talking about it at all. He uses it like a cudgel. As in, I think the other day, someone from his campaign said something along the lines of, "Obama says that we're lying, and as a former POW John McCain finds this offensive." The topic was, or had nothing to do with POWs, or the military. They just tossed in an assertion that because John McCain was a POW, he was incapable of lying.

Of course McCain likes talking about it. Why? It's the only thing, rightfully, that nobody in their right mind would question or dishonor him about in his entire life. It's actually quite a good tactic. Throw in POW wherever you can, someone comes after you for something, and all of a sudden, BAM! You're attacking a former POW! How dare you!

Just read the script from his Sunday performance. McCain talked about his POW experience most of the time. Nah, he's not playing it up. Not songbird John...

http://roadkillrefugee.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/mccain-exploiting-pow-card-for-personal-ambition/

Here's another writer who shares your view.

I don't think McCain emphasizes his military service nearly enough.  When competing for the job of Commander-in-Chief, and your opponent has no military service at all, it stands to reason that McCain should contrast his admirable service with his opponent's total deficiency in that regard.  I'm sure if Obama had any admirable service that is akin to McCain's military service, he would be touting it all over the place. 

Umm... Being Commander in Chief is but only one aspect of being President. Correct? And aside from that, what military experiences did John McCain have that would prepare him for command? Sure, he graduated the Naval Academy, but he never lead a squadron. He never commanded a ship in the Navy. He never had men under his command.

But, but, but <sniffle> - he flew in a jet.  He was shot down.  He was a POW.  We MUST respect his service and his time as a POW by electing him to be the leader of the free world!  He deserves it, what with all the pain of being a POW and graduating almost last in his class at the Naval Academy <sniffle>.  John McCain is a hero.  He was treated nasty by those Viet Cong folks over there in Viet Nam. <sniffle>

<sarcasm off>

Sheesh - even I can't do it without bursting out in laughter...

You are not compelled to respect McCain's service, so there is no MUST about it.  You're mistaken. Aren't you relieved?  Now you can carry on with your classless disrespect and feel good about it.  Nice.

I don't respect John McCain.  I think he's an ass.

Well, if it's any consolation he would probably return your favor.

Oh course he would, he's an ass.  Duh.

Tommy, you missed the point - as usual. 

I wasn't dissing McCain's service.  I was making fun of righties who feel as though McCain is entitled to the presidency because of his experience in Vietnam.  But then again, you have to turn it into something else because you're lacking in the reading comprehension department.

His willingness to sacrifice for his country is amply demonstrated by his service. His experiences in that regard reflect on his character and provide him first hand insight into what it actually means to send our armed forces into battle.  Of course it's only one aspect of being president, but it's still a distinction that favorably sets him apart from Obama. I don't fault Obama for lack of military service, but it's still and attribute that McCain carries and Obama doesnt . . .

I know hundreds of people who've served their country but very few of them, if any, who I'd like to see as president.

Thomp.Steve, so I guess you voted for Kerry.

Actually POW, I did vote for Kerry, although his military service had very little to do with my choice.  Voted for Bush in 2000, found him totally incompetent, and cast my lot with Kerry in 2004.  At the time, with all the swiftboating going on, I decided that even if Kerry did not have the war record that he claimed, I still preferred him over Bush.  That is, unless someone was an ax murderer or mobster, or something along those lines, I don't care too much how heroically someone performed when they were 18-20 years old in a miserable war.  I thought Kerry was (is) an intelligent fellow, far brighter than GW, and believed his judgment would be better than GW's. 

But to your point, had I paid more attention then to the speciousness of the swiftboat allegations, I would have respected Kerry even more.

GOP re non-GOP military service, wounds, and the honor due thereunto (I paraphrase):

-Purple heart bandaids, Yuk yuk yukkity yuk!

-Swiftboat liars

-"He blowed hisseff up wid 'is own grenade! Yuk yuk yukkity yuk!" (Ann Coulter, re Max Cleland, triple-amputee vet).

So when it comes to the righties declaiming this as some kind of absolute moral principle, color me unimpressed.

Magnolia posted;

but he never lead a squadron. He never commanded a ship in the Navy. He never had men under his command.

Better check "the google" again Mag.  

Two of those statements are wrong.  He never commanded a ship, but then an AVIATION Capt probably wouldn't...right?  You see that's not how it works in the Navy, oh never mind...

As for your blatant mis-truth, uhm...yeah, anyway,  McCain was commander of VA-174 at Cecil Field, Jacksonville, FL in 1976.  

And yes he would have men under his command there...just so you'll know.  

I'll back that up, he did command a squadron. He left the Navy because he was never going to get command of a ship which pretty much nixed any chance of him becoming a full admiral.

Snoopy posted:

He left the Navy because he was never going to get command of a ship which pretty much nixed any chance of him becoming a full admiral.

 

This sentiment seems to be a recurring theme in left leaning circles.  You do realize that all Flag officers in the Navy don't command ships, right?  All career's don't end with a star.  McCain was NOT a surface warfare officer, nor was he a submariner.  He was an AVIATION officer.  Which would have limited his options for promotion.  Either way McCain served for over twenty years, the time of retirement in the military.  How long did Barry Soetorro O serve?  

It's been a slow but steady trickle but I detect the reverse swift boating of McCains service.   

I took that piece of information from McCain's book. You should read it sometime.

Fair enough.  If true then that would negate my statement.  

I do stand by my post.  Not all admirals are in command of ships.  That may have been the case with McCain, but I haven't seen it.  I have not read his book though, so I defer to you if you have.  

I'm sure if Obama had any admirable service that is akin to McCain's military service, he would be touting it all over the place.

And I'm equally sure that if Obama had military experience, the right wing attack machine would smear him and lie about his service.  I don't have to guess about that, do I?

Are you referring to the time Rove's Smear machine made fun of McCain being a former POW with THIS political advertisement:

???

The only time John McCain didn't want to talk about his POW experience was when some veterans began saying he committed treason by singing to his captors.

Hey ya'll check this out:http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16485.html.  Gramps at his finest!!!

And this:McCain’s embrace of ‘Judeo-Christian values’http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16609.html#more-16609.  This guy is realllly creepy. You wonder if he really knows the implications of it...but I know he does and that is what's scary.  Talk tough, bully , bribe, preemptive strike.  A President must be able to use force above all else...Right?  <sarcasm> Funny if it wasn't so serious to see Condelezza and them critizing Russia.  You know countries don't invade other countries in the 21th century. This shiznit is gotta stop.

Well, OK, so he talks about it all the time. (In fact I think the campaign's current plan is decal the letters "POW" onto the back of his suit jacket.) But I'm sure he really hates it.

I think we should all honor John McCain's service.

I think he should be appointed ambassador to Czechoslovakia.

Aside from the ridiculous statement that McSame doesn't like to talk about his POW experience, and Carlson's obvious ignorance about EVERYTHING, who was that thief on the right side of the screen?  Surely that wasn't christian-values Ralph Reed, the proven hypocrite friend of Jack Abramoff?  Come on.  FUX "news" wouldn't put a crook on their channel... oh, I forgot, Ollie North is on there, too. Never mind.

It's all he's got but he doesn't need to mention it. As he always does from most of the MSM, he received yet another war-as-formative-experience love letter from the Corporate News Network tonight from that journalistic giant John King in a teaser on his in-depth look at the man, John McCain, to air in full tomorrow.  Before that we were treated to a few seconds of bean-brain Suzanne Malveaux's companion piece, an unflinching look at Obama's formative years as a community organizer and apparent ruthless jerk who back-stabbed his mentor and, the account suggests, would stop at nothing to feed his unbridled ambition. Who needs Fox News when you have CNN?

He knows full well that if he'd taken an early release he wouldv'e been court martialed.

OH PLEASE IF MCCAIN THANKS IT WILL HELP HIM WIN HE WILL TALK ABOUT IT 24/7. BUT HE DON'T HAVE TOO BECAUSE WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE WHITE PEOPLE IN THE DEM PARTY AND INDEPENDENTS ARE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR THIS BLACK MAN PEOPLE. LOOK AT THE POLLS PEOPLE THIS IS WHAT THE MOSTLY ALL WHITE MEDIA DON'T WHAT TO TALK ABOUT WHY MCCAIN IS SO CLOSE WHEN DEMS ARE GOING TO TAKE BACK BOTH HOUSES.

I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but this is one white dem who will be voting for Obama in November.

Talking point debunked.  Next!

Yea sure he doesn't like to talk about his POW experiences except of course when:http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16635.html#more-16635.

"You know, he doesn't like to talk about when he was a POW "

^^^BAHAHAHAHA^^^

 Even if this were true he wouldn't have too, the stooges in the media do it enough for him ad nauseam.