Mon, Jun 16, 2008 2:28pm ET

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Matthews said, "I don't hear Democrats talk ... about the need to reduce the number of abortions," but they do, often, and on his show

Summary: On Hardball, Chris Matthews asserted, "I don't hear Democrats talk ... about the need to reduce the number of abortions." He continued: "[Y]ou don't hear them talking a lot about the need for education, for much fewer, maybe enormously fewer, unwanted pregnancies, which is the reason people get abortions." In fact, Sen. Barack Obama said in April, "[W]e should be doing everything we can to avoid unwanted pregnancies that might even lead somebody to consider having an abortion."
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Posted by wzwriter

Dear NBC:

PLEASE don't name this clown to replace Tim Russert.  PLEASE!!!!!!

Posted by dbeden4153 in reply to wzwriter

I want Chuck Todd.  I don't think anyone else could do justice to the chair of Russert.

Posted by ohmercy in reply to wzwriter

Shhhhh.

Don't even think it! 

Posted by my4cents1172 in reply to wzwriter

According to Jay Severin here in Boston, the choice should be Rush Limbaugh.

Jay claims he is a Libertarian but I hope any Boston guy that listens to him (best and brightest as he calls them , dumb and dumber in my opinion)  for any other purpose than to feel that there is a bigger fool out there, realizes that Severin is a Republican -shoe -licker just like the rest of Right wing talk radio hosts. Conscience is out of their dictionary.

 

Posted by Col. Harlan Sanders in reply to my4cents1172

Bill O'Reilly's an "independent". heh heh.

Posted by captfoster2

The only reason at all that abortion is even an issue in this country is that it is a wedge issue that is used to enflame those that want to try and tell everyone else how to live their lives!

Conservative right-wingers are the scary loose cannons of this country and would be just as happy to see America destoyed as wrap themselves up in the flag trying to defend it!

Posted by noleftturns in reply to captfoster2

It's truly disgusting to portray the anti-abortion position as radical or outside the mainstream, when the other side seems to have no problem with the arbitrary slaughtering of human beings. More than 1 millon a year in this country since Roe v. Wade.

If only the aborted could have TOLD us how they wanted to live THEIR lives or what they wanted to do with THEIR bodies.  Pretty sad.

Posted by mary59 in reply to noleftturns

You know, that's not really what's going on here. You want to make abortion an anti or pro thing, it's not. Nobody is in favor of it. It's a sad reality; the issue is criminalizing women or doctors. You can't try to believe that abortions will end if they are made illegal. I've lived through that era.

Posted by noleftturns in reply to mary59

How about a law requiring pregnant women to receive an ultrasound and/or be hooked up to a fetal monitor?  I would be the abortion would drop in half if not more.  Planned Parenthood is AGAINST a law like that as is NARAL.  So..it's fair to say that, in fact, the abortion industry and the doctors are actually FOR abortion, otherwise they'd have no problem with ultrasounds and fetal monitors.

Posted by mescal in reply to noleftturns

So, you think that pregnant women should be hooked up to an ultrasound AGAINST THEIR WILL and forced to listen to paternalistic right-wing propaganda?

Not a big believer in liberty, are you? 

Posted by noleftturns in reply to mescal

Every two weeks, the government withholds 30 percent of my pay AGAINST MY WILL.  The government forces me to buy auto insurance AGAINST MY WILL.  My newborn children have been given vaccinations AGAINST MY WILL. Why? Because it's the law.  Doctors do things all the time proscribed by governments -- i.e. the people through their elected representatives.  Surely the gov't/people's interest in protecting the unborn would supercede interests in tax collection and compulsory auto insurance.  Your argument makes NO SENSE.  But then again, you're a liberal, so that's not surprising.

Posted by noleftturns in reply to mary59

Weren't there were heroin, LSD and marijuana dealers before they were illegal?  I would imagine that making abortion illegal would discourage several thousand per year.  AND if nobody is in favor of abortion that would certainly be a good thing wouldn't it?  In addition to being a straw man, your argument makes no logical sense when you take the position that nobody is in favor of abortion.

Posted by pithaughn in reply to noleftturns

Ok Mr. smarty panty pants, what should the sentence be for a 14 year old pregnant person who chooses abortion because she was raped by her relative and cannot get parental permission? Hmmm? NO ONE is pro abortion, even the health care professionals who profit from abortion would much rather be providing other types of health care. Do you really believe there is such a surplus of doctors and nurses that they had to start providing abortions to make a living?

Posted by MiddleLeft in reply to pithaughn

Will we have to lock up pregnant women who are discovered to have been trying to get a first term abortion?  Maybe like a nursing home where you can visit them but they they can't get out until they pop.  Or a low security jail?

Conspiracy to seek an abortion. 

Posted by noleftturns in reply to MiddleLeft

How about a law requiring pregnant women to receive an ultrasound and/or be hooked up to a fetal monitor?  I would be the abortion would drop in half if not more.  Planned Parenthood is AGAINST a law like that as is NARAL.  So..it's fair to say that, in fact, the abortion industry and the doctors are actually FOR abortion, otherwise they'd have no problem with ultrasounds and fetal monitors.

Posted by philib in reply to pithaughn

"Ok Mr. smarty panty pants, what should the sentence be for a 14 year old pregnant person who chooses abortion because she was raped by her relative and cannot get parental permission? Hmmm"

   That's one of the problems with you pro-abortion people, you don't even know what you're talking about on the issue. You pro-abortion people have made it so that the "14 year old" does NOT NEED parental permission. She doesn't even need to let them know it is happening. So, she can go out and get one, without her parents even knowing. That way the relative who raped her will continue to rape her because there are no consequences for his actions. Your love of inhumanity has caused the death of a human, the rape of a child and the freedom for the rapist.

   Job well done by you pro-abortionists.

Posted by noleftturns in reply to philib

PHILB,

I could not have said it better. 

On a smaller point:  Ever try sending your kid to school with an aspirin or cold medicine?  They can't take it without the nurse knowing about it.  You need parental consent for everything EXCEPT an abortion.

Posted by philib in reply to noleftturns

   I'm interested to hear what mary59 has to say about the example given about the 14 year old who was raped by a relative but the relative got away with it because the 14 yo isn't required to notify anyone about the crime as she gets her abortion. I'm interested in why she thinks a woman in danger of losing her life won't be able to get qualified medical care. "No wire hangers" was a great slogan during her day, but the fact is, medical care for the woman would permit needed procedures. She just continues the fear tactics that she used back in the '70's while she fought to get abortions mainstreamed and popularized.

   But, like so many pro-abortionists, I suspect she will remain silent during an arguement she has no perception of reality in.

Posted by Kyle_Broflovski

They talk about the rights issue, the constitutional question of Roe v. Wade, but you don't hear them talking a lot about the need for education,

This is the dumbest comment in Matthews's bloviation.  Here's a clue for you, Chris - it's not Democrats who oppose more comprehensive sex education.  It's three groups, and they all begin with the letter 'R'.

And since you're dense, I'll even give you the answer.  The Republicans, the Right-wing, and the Religious.

Posted by Kyle_Broflovski

The flip side of this coin is - Chris also doesn't hear Republicans talk about reducing the number of American military casualties.

Chris doesn't hear anyone talk except himself.

Posted by philib in reply to Kyle_Broflovski

"Chris also doesn't hear Republicans talk about reducing the number of American military casualties."

   Could that be because you left wingers are causing 1 MILLION dead per year, while the war casualties are 4100 dead in 6 years of battle. A slight difference. These war deaths have reduced the number and capability of terrorists to perform terroristic attacks, they have given a country the ability to rule themselves, not by a murderous dictator and not by terrorists. While the human deaths caused by abortion have achieved what? The ability of left wing zealots to be able to proudly claim victory over rule of law? That's quite an achievement by you left wing people who welcome, even promote the deaths of a million humans a year while whining about a few hundred adults dying trying to provide a safer planet for you to 'off' another million humans.

Posted by ufleirx

Why is this man given any time on air? What an A#$!

Posted by Governor

Why Chris does not hear: http://blueroof.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/ignore.png

Posted by Col. Harlan Sanders in reply to Governor

That may be it, Gov. Or it could be the non-stop assault of his own voice that makes it difficult to hear anything else going on in the world.

Posted by princeofwheels in reply to Col. Harlan Sanders

It seems to me that Mr. Matthews cannot remember what has been stated on his own show. Is it never really listening or is it too much airtime?

Let's face it, these paragons of virtue are on the Tv/Radio continuously tackling every little issue or word blurb that appears. They are over-saturated with words, images clips etc. I think they need time-off from their multiple daily programs or do just one a day. I feel it would make them more conscious of their words/actions. Mr. Matthews is wrong on this but he probably has no idea what was mentioned on his show. I hope that is the case.

Posted by snoopy in reply to Col. Harlan Sanders

I thought it was because he sticks his fingers in his ears and goes "La-la-la-la-la I CAN"T HEAR YOU!"

Posted by JimmyCraghorn in reply to Governor

how old was Matthews in that picture?

Posted by Timmee

This is an old Republican strawman that if you are for a woman's right to choose you WANT MORE ABORTIONS. It's ridiculous.

Just look at names each "side" gives itself.. PRO life and PRO choice...Pro choice makes sense, because their are people who want to take that choice away. "Pro-life" insinuates that they are fighting people who are against life or "pro-death".

These born again cultic freaks should call their movement, "PRO Backalley Abortions" or "Pro Theocracy".

Tweety should be ashamed if such a thing were possible.

Another tactic of the Republicans and their surrogates is to pick out some arbitary issue and say that (Democrats, Progressives, Liberals, etc) are "silent" about this issue.

"Fluffy the cat was hit by a car today, but if you looked in the NYTimes, you wouldn't know anything about it...why are Liberals supporting the running over of cats with their silence?

Posted by noleftturns in reply to Timmee

Not a strawman at all.  Those politically and economically connected do indeed wnat more abortions. 

How about a law requiring pregnant women to receive an ultrasound and/or be hooked up to a fetal monitor?  I would bet the abortion rate would drop in half if not more.  Planned Parenthood is AGAINST a law like that as is NARAL.  So..it's fair to say that, in fact, the abortion industry and the doctors are actually FOR abortion, otherwise they'd have no problem with ultrasounds and fetal monitors.  And if YOU are against this kind of law -- which DoES NOT ban abortion -- then you too are FOR more abortions

Posted by dbeden4153

I've said time and time again that abortions should be safe, legal, and rare.  Comprehensive sex education is a good track to start, but fighting propaganda such as this is essential.

Posted by DEMS_SOL

On the January 2, 2003, edition of Hardball, former president of NARAL Pro-Choice America Kate Michelman, .......said to guest host Mike Barnicle: "What I would say to the president is that perhaps what he should concentrate on is creating a nation where we focus on making abortion less necessary,

I believe the first step in making this a reality is understanding her definition of necessity vs. that of convenience.  If abortion were indeed limited to those of necessity this wouldn't be the wedge issue it has become.

Posted by tbone in reply to DEMS_SOL

If abortion were indeed limited to those of necessity this wouldn't be the wedge issue it has become.

BZZZZZZZTT.  Only the one in need can define necessity.  Once society defines, we are no longer talking about "choice".

Posted by DEMS_SOL in reply to tbone

Once society defines, we are no longer talking about "choice".

So what role do you believe society should play in establishing laws - and who they should selectively apply to?

Posted by dbeden4153 in reply to DEMS_SOL

"So what role do you believe society should play in establishing laws - and who they should selectively apply to?"

Are you asking this question as a generality? or specifically to the issue of abortion?

Posted by tbone in reply to DEMS_SOL

Depends on the issue.  With respect to sovereignty over one's own body, society has no authority.

Posted by Col. Harlan Sanders in reply to DEMS_SOL

If a pregnancy is avoided, whether through education, abstinence, or just plain dumb luck, then an abortion is unnecessary from everybody's point of view.

Posted by wzwriter in reply to Col. Harlan Sanders

If a pregnancy is avoided, whether through education, abstinence, or just plain dumb luck, then an abortion is unnecessary from everybody's point of view.

DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are CORRECT!!!!!!!

Posted by NiceguyEddie in reply to DEMS_SOL

 If abortion were indeed limited to those of necessity this wouldn't be the wedge issue it has become.

WHAT? Are you for real?  Unless I grossly misunderstood (and it's possible) You're basically saying, "Gee if we just made it illegal, except when the life of the mother is threatened, then it wouldn't be an issue."  THAT'S UTTER NONSENSE!!!  The issue would only go away in YOUR OWN MIND.  The restof us would still have our opinions, and the majority would, in fact, disagree with you, and we do every time core abortion rights are threatened, and the issue is put to a vote.

How about this: IT WOULDN'T BE A WEDGE ISSUE IF RIGHT-WING RELIGION WHACKO FUNNY-MENTALISTS WOULD LEARN (OR BE FORCED) TO MIND THEIR OWN F-ING BUSINESS AND LIVE THEIR OWN LIVES THE WAY THEY SEE FIT, ACCORDING TO THEIR MORAL CODE AND LET THE REST OF US DECIDE FOR OURSELVES HOW WE WISH TO DO THE SAME.

Margnalizing the religious whackos would also make a lot of issues cease to be wedge issues.  That's the solution I would prefer.

Posted by philib in reply to NiceguyEddie

"The issue would only go away in YOUR OWN MIND.  The rest[ ]of us would still have our opinions, and the majority would, in fact, disagree with you, and we do every time core abortion rights are threatened, and the issue is put to a vote."

   And THAT is the problem. Abortion rights advocates are NOT interested in law, only being able to control others lives. Anti-abortionists offer a reasonable compromise (allowing abortion when medically necassary to save woman) and you cry 'NO DEAL!'. You want and demand abortions with no restrictions. Who's the uncompromising-nutcase in this issue? Right---you are.

   You know simply voting for those rights mean nothing. Have you noticed that gay marriage rights have been voted on over and over again and never win? Well, all it takes is a rogue judge to put his seal of approval on something and you have gay marriage. That's the reason many will vote for McCain, they won't want these radical judges in control, but would rather see honest fair judges put in places of power. You left-wingers will complain it's because of "core" issues, but the fact is the rest of the nation is tired of judges pandering to left wing maniacs and ignoring what we actually VOTE FOR.

Posted by NiceguyEddie in reply to philib

Gay people should have the right to marry.  It's not radical.  You can't give me a constitutionally sound reason why they shouldn't.  Period. That it never wins a vote is irrelevant.  Slavery was never abolished by a vote either.  That why we have judges: To GUARENTEE PEOPLE THE FREEDOM THAT THEY ARE ENTITLED TO UNDER THE CONSTUITION, REGARDLESS OF WHAT RELIGIOUS WHACKO'S AND BIGOTS BELIEVE IS RIGHT.

Posted by pithaughn in reply to DEMS_SOL

Ah, but who is going to decide where the line between neccissity and convinience is to be drawn? If the pro-make safe abortions illegal movement would stop and think about the big picture they would realize that the status quo is about as good as we can hope for. There is a balance between the extreme positions of each side that is acceptable to the majority of people. Please remember, all pregnant women have the coice to NOT abort. Legalized abortion does not make it mandatory.  (Watch Juno a few times)

As a parent, husband, brother and friend of women, I do not want health care practicioners worried about an over zealous DA second guessing their medical decisions. It is bad enough that the need to profit from their decisions already clouds the decision process.

Posted by misspris

Men shouldn't have any say one way or another on abortion. NONE!!!

Posted by wzwriter in reply to misspris

Men shouldn't have any say one way or another on abortion. NONE!!!

As my wife (who has a real way with words) puts it - one penis, no vote.

Posted by ohmercy in reply to wzwriter

I think Your wife and I could become good friends!

LOL 

Posted by pointofview in reply to misspris

J.

 

If that is your belief, than a man should never have to pay child support...not one cent, if he did not want the child.  Pro life makes total sence, contrary to what some of have said here.  You are chosing between life and death.  Pro choice is a nice way to clean up what is really happening, and making it easier look past the reality of ending the life of a baby. 

Posted by dbeden4153 in reply to pointofview

"Pro life makes total sence, contrary to what some of have said here.  You are chosing between life and death.  Pro choice is a nice way to clean up what is really happening, and making it easier look past the reality of ending the life of a baby."

Were you alive before Roe v. Wade?  Abortions were still prevalent, but only if you could afford it.  And they were much more dangerous than in a hospital with a certified doctor.  It's not an easy choice to make, it's never an easy choice.  And it's much, much more complicated than "choosing between life and death."  That's too simplistic to even begin to factor in the health of the mother as well as the future well-being of the child.  If you want to talk honestly about the issue, then drop the talking points and political barbs and be honest about it, instead of throwing up crude phrasings as an end-all be-all to the discussion.

Posted by Easy to refute wingnuts in reply to pointofview

Pro life makes total sence

No, it doesn't. What you are advocating is pro-birth, forcing a woman to give birth to a child and care for it for the rest of her life as punishment for the sin of enjoying sex.

Once the children are born, the religious right doesn't care about them one whit until they are old enough to be shipped overseas to die in wars created by lies and designed to make the right and their cronies rich. 

Posted by noleftturns in reply to Easy to refute wingnuts

Having a child as punishment?  Isn't that a line from a St, Barack speech?

It has nothing to do with PUNISHMENT.  It's about taking responsibility for your own actions.  That's what it really comes down to with abortion. The liberals are for living in the moment without the consequences.  It's why abortion is so widespread.  An d it's why a majority of abortions are performed on women -- with full backing from the fathers -- who CAN afford to take responsibility for raising that child.

Posted by mescal in reply to noleftturns

Its hardly "taking responsibility for your own actions" when you're FORCED to carry a pregnancy to term. That is simply a case of arrogant, paternalistic, right wing busy bodies FORCING THEIR OWN SO-CALLED VALUES DOWN THE THROATS OF THOSE WHO DEIGN TO MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES FOR THEIR OWN LIVES! Get it? A woman's body is HERS... NOT YOURS. Its NOT for YOU to decide what SHE shall do with it, NOR is it for YOU to inflict yourself into HER decision making process.

Why are right wingers so often such slavish supporters of the state controlling the life of the individual? 

Posted by noleftturns in reply to mescal

I've said this so many times to MORONS on this site.  The growing baby is not just PART OF the mother's body.  It is a distinct human being with it's own circulatory, nervous and other systems.  Yes it does rely on the mother, but to equate the baby as 'just a part of' a woman's body is just a way to make abortion more palatable

Posted by noleftturns in reply to mescal

MESCAL:

Why is being pregnant a PUNISHMENT?  Please explain that.

Posted by friedbergboy1422 in reply to pointofview

POV,

If abortion is made illegal, where does this end?  Will a mother be investigated if she loses her fetus through miscarraige?  After all, she could have aborted it.

I don't think anyone here wants more abortion, but rather wants it as an option.

Pro-life might make sense if the supporters of the movement cared as much for the living as they do the fetus.

Posted by pointofview in reply to friedbergboy1422

Fried

I dont think anyone wants more abortions either, but I find it interesting that people here make stupid comments like a man should have no say, or that the religious right does not care once the kids are born, and then simply treat those dumb comments like established facts.

In my view, of course things like the health of the mother have to be a factor, but this is not some simple medical decision with no consequences.  It results in the detah of the baby, and dont even get me started on partial birth abprtion, where in fact, the baby is in fact half delivered when the "procedure takes place. 

 

Posted by friedbergboy1422 in reply to pointofview

POV,

I think where most disagreements take place is regarding when does a fetus become a baby. 

Posted by BottleBlonde in reply to pointofview

Very few abortions result in the death of a baby. Only abortions where the mother's life is in danger or her health is in real danger, or where the fetus is so malformed that it could to survive outside the womb are viable fetuses aborted.

A miscarriaged fetus is not a baby. Neither is an aborted non-viable fetus a baby.

Posted by Easy to refute wingnuts in reply to BottleBlonde

or where the fetus is so malformed that it could to (couldn't, perhaps?) survive outside the womb are viable fetuses aborted.

The definition of "viable" is the ability to survive outside the womb. So, the abortion of a fetus so malformed it can't survive outside the womb, by definition, is not the abortion of a viable fetus. 

Posted by noleftturns in reply to BottleBlonde

A fetus is NOT a baby and a baby NOT a fetus.

But BOTH a baby and a fetus are HUMAN BEINGS.  That's a scientific fact

The fetus-baby distinction is nothing more than Orwellian doublespeak.

Posted by mescal in reply to noleftturns

Wrong again.

A fetus is a POTENTIAL human being. 

Posted by noleftturns in reply to mescal

Do you have a scientific citation on that?

What defines a human being at its most basic level? 

Posted by mescal in reply to noleftturns

How about a functioning MIND? How about CONSCIOUSNESS? A human being is not simply DNA. A human being does not consist merely of flesh and fluids overlaying a set of bones. By your definition, a corpse is still a human being. What makes a human being is the ability to think, and to reason, and to experience some level of self awareness.

Interestingly, it is just that very same thinking, reasoning, conscious human being that you would deny the most basic of liberties to, because her choices will likely conflict with your supernatural and oppressive belief system.

It is not some fetus, or gamete, or zygote that actually arouses your passion. They're simply the excuse. Like most anti-choice zealots, it is freedom itself that is your true prey. Your rage is directed at those who dare to think their own thoughts and choose their own paths in this life. Its directed at women who opt to freely experience and define their own sexuality rather than toe the repressive line of Biblical proscription. You are a closet fascist who seeks to use the coercive powers of the state to enforce your own straight jacketed and anal retentive sense of morality.    

Posted by pithaughn in reply to pointofview

Slow down their Point : "partial birth abprtion" I assume you mean the non-medial term partial birth abortion. That is not a recognized medical procedure, it is slang. The procedure is used very rarely to save the LIFE of someone. The reason we (rational, non extremist people) want it to be a legal procedure is so that in an emergency room, the docs and nurses are not worried about wether thier decisions will get them convicted by some headline lusting DA.

Do you want emergency room care givers to be worried about criminal prosecution while they try to save YOUR LIFE?

Posted by achrispage6992 in reply to misspris

If a man is responsible for a child after it is born then why should he have no say in the choice to terminate a pregnancy?

Posted by LeftSidePositive in reply to achrispage6992

Because, of course, the man does not have to carry the developing fetus in his body, and deal with the considerable psychological and medical effects, and potential for very severe complications, of carrying a baby to term.

The law cannot consider him an equal player in the aftermath of the unplanned pregnancy because there is nothing preventing him from leaving the care of the child at any time (and even if he does pay child support, if he is permitted to insist that a child be born and then physically abandons the mother and child, what can the law do?).

Also, there is no way for the law to know that this very fatherly-looking person earnestly asking for a baby to be brought to term might be an abusive boyfriend or father, an unstable alcoholic, or just a deadbeat who wants to keep his wife barefoot & pregnant to compel her to stay in a physically, financially, and/or emotionally abusive relationship. Since these issues would take a LOT longer than 9 months to resolve in court, it is unfortunately not practical to allow men to insist on what goes on outside of their bodies, when it so greatly affects the life & health of the woman, who would have a much harder time getting out of it.

Posted by achrispage6992 in reply to LeftSidePositive

Of course there is a myriad of hypothetical situations which support your argument. Seems to me that using such hypotheticals only serves to further the mentality tht an unplanned pregnancy is merely an inconvenience. Your argument makes a lot of sense though. I have never looked at it through that prism before.It would be interesting to know how many prospective fathers of the one million aaborted fetuses  last year would have been deadbeatsand how many would have been responsible parents who would have welcomed the oppurtinity to father a child. Putting aside legality for a moment is it not a valid question to ask whether or not a man should be included in such a decision if in fact he is fully interested in the fate of something that is prt of him as well?

Posted by mescal in reply to achrispage6992

Are you arguing that a man should have the right to FORCE a woman that he impregnated to have an abortion, in order for him to avoid having to pay child support?

Or are you saying that he should be able to FORCE a woman that he impregnated to carry his child to term?

In either scenario, it would remove ultimate control of a woman's body from HER, and instead to the man that she had sexual relations with.

That would mean that any time a woman chooses to engage in sex, she becomes the de facto property of that man.

This would constitute a radical return to the assumptions of traditional societies.

It would be as if the Enlightenment had never happened. 

 

Posted by lakuip in reply to mescal

Here's the thing.  Abortion is a zero sum game.  You can't have a half a baby, or half of an abortion.  Fathers who care are already allowed to have a "say" in the matter.  There is this thing called freedom of speech, and they can "say" whatever they want... beseech, implore, beg the woman to have the baby or to have an abortion.  The thing is, the final legal decision should always rest with the woman, as it does today.

Posted by mescal in reply to lakuip

Absolutely right.

Posted by achrispage6992 in reply to lakuip

I can't disagree with that. My point is that it is somewhat disingenious to declare that a man should have no say whatsoever in such a decision, especially if that man is willing to be responsible. Why do we, as a society, expect a man to be responsible for a child that he fathered? In the end it just seems somewhat selfish for a woman to make such a decision without input from the father, if in fact the woman feels the man would be a responsible person. To just dismiss the potential father as merely a bystander contradicts the societal expectation of the father being a responsible part of the childs life following birth. That being said, I don't believe there should be any type of legal forcing of a woman to obtain consent from the father to proceed with the prodedure. I'm just saying that as a matter of respect for the father of a potential child such a discussion should take place.

Posted by mescal in reply to achrispage6992

Actually, Chris, I think that you have just expressed a very reasonable and thoughtful point of view. All things being equal, a man SHOULD have input to such a decision. Hopefully, that level of communication exists between the man and woman involved.

If that level of communication does NOT exist, however, its still her ultimate choice. The man isn't going to be the one with a fetus gestating within his body, after all. He's entitled to his own opinions and his own beliefs, but isn't entitled to force them on her.

As a man, that choice will become mine when I grow a uterus. 

Posted by achrispage6992 in reply to mescal

Are you arguing that a man should have the right to FORCE a woman that he impregnated to have an abortion, in order for him to avoid having to pay child support?

No. I don't know how you arrived at that question based on my post, but that is not what I am saying. That would be just plain sick.

 

Or are you saying that he should be able to FORCE a woman that he impregnated to carry his child to term?

Strike two.

In either scenario, it would remove ultimate control of a woman's body from HER, and instead to the man that she had sexual relations with.

Couldn't agree with you more.

That would mean that any time a woman chooses to engage in sex, she becomes the de facto property of that man.

Preaching to the choir.

This would constitute a radical return to the assumptions of traditional societies.

Wouldn't that be awful though?

It would be as if the Enlightenment had never happened

IF enlightenment is 1 million abortions a year then we didn't do to well. Look, all I was pointing out is that that a man who cares for the pregnant woman, who would be a responsible father, and who may actually want a child, should at least get a discussion out of the deal, considering that the fetus is part of him as well and if born he is expected to be responsible. Contrary to what you may believe some men are not just bystanders and sperm donors who could care less about the outcome of a pregnancy. Should we legally force a woman to counsult with the father....No. But, I would question the charachter of the woman who simply makes such a decision on her own if the potential father is an honorable person who cares. He deserves to have input even if in the end it is the womans' body and the woman's choice.  

Posted by mescal in reply to achrispage6992

I can't argue with that response.

Excellent post. 

Posted by NiceguyEddie in reply to misspris

I disagree in a soft way: I think that the father should be involved in the conversation. The level of involvement he intends to have may influence the mother's decision after all.  But I do agree with you in the hard way: When it comes to forcing the issue (which is what eliminating choice means) then yeah, the mother pretty much should have veto power.

Posted by shaggles

That is a really weird exchange.  Matthews says "I don't hear Dems talking like you just did." but Durbin was paraphrasing Obama's position.  And it's not just Obama.  I remember quite clearly Hillary saying something similar in 2004 or 2005 but the main thing the pundits seemed to get from that was that she was positioning herself for a White House run.  I guess that's why Matthews does't remember it.

Posted by jeter2

"I don't hear Democrats talk...

Matthews never hears anyone talk because he's usually interrupting his guests or talking over them.

Posted by mary59 in reply to jeter2

He can't hear his guests over the noises in his head.

Posted by ohmercy

Matthews is nuts. I swear he has ADD. He can see a clip or listen to a tape, or read a comment on the air and then immediately discuss it as if he had read something completely different!

I find myself saying "HUH?" or "WTF?" or "How did he get this from that?" 

 

I can't even watch him anymore he's so out of tune or off course most of the time.

Do not get it.

 

"this is getting ethnic now..."

Aiyeeee. 

Posted by skiploader1111

It's an amazing PHENOMENON OF NATURE, really.  If an event is not witnessed by a Republican, if a Republican forgets they witnessed it , OR if a Republican is told that it didn't happen, therefore, THE EVENT NEVER OCCURRED!
Matthews is the result of retrograde devolution of homo sapiens sapiens to a lesser and quite vile sub species, homo saphead. The sooner he and his ilk go extinct the sooner we'll evolve from human to humane

Posted by j238

So Mathews has decided he's pro life.

Nearly no one in that group is concerned with the deaths in the US caused by cigarettes and guns. 

Mathews has never called Right to Life on their own inconsistencies. 

Posted by Easy to refute wingnuts in reply to j238

Nearly no one in that group is concerned with the deaths in the US caused by cigarettes and guns.

Or war. I don't see how someone who is "pro-life" is in favor of people being killed in an illegal, pre-emptive war founded on lies. 

Posted by JimmyCraghorn in reply to j238

Where does Matthews say he is pro-life?  I reread the article and I didn't see it.

Posted by jmh

I see a big difference in the likes of Chris Matthews and the likes of the misanthropes at Fox. Whether you like or agree Matthews or not for his opinions at least they are his honest opinions. Sean Hannity, on the other hand says nothing on good faith, good information, or good spiritedness. Every time I surf by Hannity on the tube he is saying something so inflammatory, so dishonest and absurd that is unconscionable (in my opinion) that he has a job in news broadcasting