This issue is much too important to play politics with, as McCain has clearly done with his reversals. Now he wouldn't vote for a bill he himself co-sponsored.

Despite all the tough talking about "border security" which all the politicians do, very little gets done.  I looked at Obama's immigration information http://www.barackobama.com/issues/pdf/ImmigrationFactSheet.pdf

and was glad to see that he mentioned strengthening Mexico's economy and streamlining the process of immigrating legally...these are vital to any immigration reform.

Thank you Mary, great post and link.

Thanks. As Jawill said further down the thread, no one knows how McCain will address immigration. He hasn't been consistent and the main point is that there HAS to be a multi-pronged approach to addressing it; if any parts are neglected, the floods of illegals will continue.

 -- he "would not" support the comprehensive immigration reform legislation he co-sponsored with Sen. Edward M. Kennedy -- mmfa

 -- "Sen. Kennedy and I tried very hard to get immigration reform, a comprehensive plan, through the Congress of the United States...We must make it a top agenda item." -- McCain to Americans for Legal Immigration 5/30/08

 -- he also advocated a humane approach that treats illegal workers as "God's children."...McCain said they should be allowed to seek legal status in a "humane and comprehensive fashion" -- Sacramento Bee 5/23/08

In the famous words of many posters here...no matter how many times mmfa repeats their contention that McCain has flip flopped on immigration reform...it won't make it true.

McCain has never changed his core principle of supporting amnesty. That will cause him more trouble in the general election than mmfa's silly word-smithing about him flip flopping.

 

 

What part of McSame was for it, before he was against it ... don't you understand?

"McCain has never changed his core principle of supporting amnesty. That will cause him more trouble in the general election than mmfa's silly word-smithing about him flip flopping."

Right. Sure, Wes. The thorough going conservative Republican field ran as hardline border militants in the primary and lost.

Wake up. Only a minority of radicals supports a militarized border and mass deportations. A more humane consideration of the root causes of immigration is winning the day. All that old timey us vs. them bubble gum kind of loses its flavor when more and more working Americans share more in common with migrant laborers than with the cultural conservatives who have fought every laborer protection to come along. Sorry, pal.

I certainly hope that the democrats add amnesty as a crown jewel to their agenda at their convention. 

What an idiotic response. Guess it's because you got nuthin', boy.

That's what I thought, wes.

Coward. Can't make a moral argument in favor of your police state mentality.

BASH: But on one huge McCain weak spot with conservatives, illegal immigration, a concession. When asked if he would vote for his own legislation allowing citizenship --

McCAIN: No, I would not, because we know what the situation is today. The people want the borders secured first.

How is it that you can't see that not being willing to vote for your own bill is a flip-flop? One could not create a better example of a flip-flop than that, but you won't admit that it's a 180 degree shift in position? How can you say he's never changed his core principles when he has said he would not vote for the bill he crafted?

I think Wesley was arguing that Grampy wasn't playing both sides of the issue by selectively quoting McCain taking one side of the issue. It was a good effort.

 -- arguing that Grampy wasn't playing both sides of the issue -- col.

Nope...that is not my argument. In fact, I agree that McCain is playing both sides of the issue...but in truth he has never wavered from his support of amnesty...evidenced by his speech a week ago.

I don't support McCain's sleazy tactics or his position on amnesty for illegal immigration...but it's mmfa that has selectively used one quote from McCain to paint him as a flip flopper.

He said he would not vote for "his" bill again because...he knows and mmfa knows...that particular bill will not come up again for a vote. His partnership with Kennedy on a bill supporting amnesty nearly deep-sixed his campaign...so he quickly tried to publicly distance himself from that position with crafty political double talk.

mmfa righteously decries democrat candidates being slimed by conservatives who parse words and use selected quotes...but in fact they are guilty of the same thing in this case.

McCain was...is...and will be for amnesty and will support that type of legislation if he thinks he can get away with it. Yes, indeed he is playing both sides of the issue...trying to buy time. The only way he will not support amnesty legislation is when he is faced with having his political ass handed to him again...like last year. 

This is politics at its worst...practiced by McCain and mmfa. 

 

 

   

In other words, your argument is that McCain has supported a rational policy trying to deal with a complex issue, but can't admit it because it would throw his party's racist, insane base into a hissy fit.  I guess that same argument could be said for a number of issues in this campaign.  The problem is that we have no idea how he would come down on this issue as a leader.  He certainly has not shown any backbone or principles in the past 8 years.  It's just pander 24/7 and hope nobody notices.   

Nope...that's not it at all. The problem is a simple one and the solution is a simple one. Unfortunately the problem has been caused by gutless politicians and the solution rests on those same narrow shoulders.

Until legislation is passed to change the current landscape...the solution is elementary. Secure the borders, deport the illegal aliens, and prosecute the employers who hire them.

The opposition to amnesty type legislation is not restricted to the republicans...as evidenced by the many liberals on this site that have spoken up in protest of granting millions of illegal aliens...hiding in our society...legal status. 

I can't believe you actually think the issue is that simple. 

Secure the borders, deport the illegal aliens, and prosecute the employers who hire them.

Where you getting the money, Mr. Small Government?  Gonna cut social programs to build a big bad fence?  Will that make you sleep better at night?

The Republican party is a failure in every way possible, especially when it comes to producing effective solutions to our problems.

Does anybody recall that Mexican Reconquista was actually discussed in the notorious Zimmermann Telegram as sent the United States into World War I?