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Kondracke on Jena: "[I]t looks as though the people of Jena can solve this on their own"
On the September 19 edition of Fox News' Special Report, during a discussion of events surrounding the so-called Jena Six, Roll Call executive editor Morton M. Kondracke asserted: "[I]t looks as though the people of Jena can solve this on their own." Kondracke made this comment after claiming that the charges against black high school student Mychal Bell, one of the Jena Six, "were reduced" and that "a lot of the injustice has been corrected." In fact, it was a state appeals court sitting well outside Jena that overturned the conviction, ruling that Bell had been improperly charged as an adult, although Bell remains in custody. Though he did mention the "injustice[]" of Bell's having been charged as an adult, Kondracke did not mention the appellate court's decision to throw out the conviction.
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Posted by wzwriter
How? It looks like the people of Jena CAUSED the problem in the first place.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 5:04:44 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by JLyons in reply to wzwriter
I am not sure how racists can solve their own problems.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 5:13:42 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by tommy in reply to JLyons
Perhaps, but I don't believe incoming activists with inflammatory agendas from either side is particularly helpful.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 5:18:39 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by open_mind in reply to tommy
<sarcasm>
Just like that pesky upstart Martin Luther King, jr. startin' up trouble in Selma. I wish he would have just kept his big mouth shut!
</sarcasm>
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 5:48:15 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by tommy in reply to open_mind
sarcasm noted.
But I would never suggest that Martin Luther King, Jr. was an "incoming activist with an inflammatory agenda", so even sarcastically the comparison to today's "activists" is non-existant.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 5:59:26 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by Preston_P in reply to tommy
But, Tommy, when Martin Luther King, Jr. was at the peak of his advocacy, conservatives like William F. Buckley, Jr., Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater, etc., hated King as much as conservatives hate Sharpton and Jackson today. Sure, conservatives today change their tune and say that they're pro-King now after his death, but the same complaints made about King being a trouble-maker and "inflammatory" are made about Jackson and Sharpton today by conservatives.
Now I think I've gone on record to say I'm no fans of either Sharpton or Jackson. But them being involved in this case has little impact in how many -- white and black -- are outrage over the double-standard of the sentencing.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:13:48 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by tommy in reply to Preston_P
Preston, I hear you, but these are far different times than 40 years ago........and Dr. King was a civil rights pioneer, not a headline grabbing activist.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:21:34 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by loonz in reply to tommy
There's still a lot of injustice out there, and some people (mostly conservatives) choose to ignore it and/or accept it.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:29:14 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by Preston_P in reply to tommy
Times are different, yes, but we still have a long ways to go, and pretending that racism isn’t deeply ingrained in America’s foundation, and sweeping everything under the rug in order to not feel guilty, will not solve anything in America. Not saying that’s the type of philosophy you prescribe to, but I’m just pointing out that the same thing has been said when King was a prominent activist (i.e. “things are different and better now than they use to be”). Folks have been saying that every time an activist makes too much noise and shake up things regarding civil rights for blacks, but “times are a lot different now than it use to be” is not good enough when America is too stubborn enough to live up to its potential that “all men are created equal.”
I give you the last point, however, Sharpton and Jackson are both attention-seeking, money-grubbing pseudo-activists. I consider them more entertainers than civil rights activists who are following the example of King.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:38:00 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by tommy in reply to Preston_P
Points well taken. But I didn't bring up Martin Luther King's name, in fact I didn't even specifically bring up Al and Jesse - in my original post I was making a generalization about self-promoter injecting themselves into situations for primarily for their own agendas. It happens on all sides, as I said.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:48:45 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by Preston_P in reply to tommy
C'mon, Tommy, we all know you were alluding to Jackson and Sharpton when you said, "incoming activists with inflammatory agendas." Hell, that comment has Jackson and Sharpton’s name written all over it! I feel what you're saying, and in Jackson and Sharpton's case, I actually agree with you. But just keep it real, brotha, no need to backtrack. :)
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:57:39 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by pearlene_scott1602 in reply to Preston_P
Preston, I hear you, but these are far different times than 40 years ago........and Dr. King was a civil rights pioneer, not a headline grabbing activist. Tommy
Tommy, we are still living segregated lives based on culture and language. They don’t have the signs out that separate us but we are separate just the same.
The march in Jena was a message about race BUT it was also a message about justice. Equal Protection Under the Law, the very foundation of our society. You tend to focus on the messenger when the message in this case is far more important than who delivers it.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 7:54:57 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by Preston_P in reply to pearlene_scott1602
Great post, Pearl!
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 7:58:57 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by Sams Computer in reply to Preston_P
Thanks Pearl ...
Kondracke on Jena: "Looks as though the people of Jena can solve this on their own" -
Translation ...
What happens in Jena stays in Jena! Not a national problem. Just Jena's! .... Will Kondracke ever get real? In one word, NOPE.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 12:25:33 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by smittymatt16 in reply to pearlene_scott1602
And where is the injustice? One kid got beaten repeatedly by 6 other kids. Those 6 are getting prosecuted. Their murder charge is no longer on the table, and they are not being charged for assault. It is not uncommon for prosecutors to charge for more than actually necessary until more evidence is panned out, then they commute charges appropriately. They are no longer being charged for murder, but assault. They beat up a kid, this is what they deserve. Where is the injustice in that?
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 9:35:56 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by open_mind in reply to tommy
"Dr. King was a civil rights pioneer, not a headline grabbing activist."--tommy
Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
I don't know how much you have read from conservatives at the time, but that is precisely how many of them viewed King - and they had a point. Do you think Birmingham, Montgomery and Selma would have ever made the national evening news without MLK's careful use of the media to show the rest of the country what was really going on down there?
Of course, I don't have a problem with it. People needed to see what was going on and King did the right thing in publicizing it. I am no big fan of Jesse or Al, but they are doing the right thing here again - 40 years later. This needs to be discussed on a national level and it wasn't happening much before they got involved.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:52:42 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by tommy in reply to open_mind
Open,
With all due respect, you do a tremendous disservice to Dr. King by comparing the cushy lifestyle treatment afforded Al and Jesse, for the most part today, with the trailblazing difficulties and scorn from many directed at Dr. King 40 years ago. There is no comparison.
The atmosphere in this country is night and day, perfect? Obviouslu not, but vastly improved. That is the point I am making. We have made amazing strides and advances in 40 years ago, thanks in large measure to the courage of Martin Luther King.
The difference is MLK fought for racial equality, while some opportunists today have a vested interest in only keeping themselves relevant.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 11:33:12 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by open_mind in reply to tommy
I wasn't comparing MLK to Jesse and Al. I was merely pointing out that what you generalized about modern day activists has already been said about civil rights era activists. You just don't seem to realize that.
True, the second team of activists is not quite as good as the first, but it is nice to see conservatives don't really change their rhetoric over the years. They seem to want to focus on the individuals involved (ad hominem) and not the actual argument for whatever reason.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 5:55:19 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by tommy in reply to open_mind
You most certainly did compare MLK with Jesse and Al - you said both were right in their interventions and that is where I totally disagree.....Al and Jesse are in it for themselves, MLK was championing an important cause. And what is the relevancy in saying that scurrilous things were said about MLK too, that has no bearing on anything today. For you to even suggest that Al and Jesse face anything close to what MLK faced is a slap in his face.
And your gratuitous slap at conservatives is as uncalled for as it is ridiculous.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 6:00:17 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by open_mind in reply to tommy
I suppose that is where we disagree. I think this Jena 6 issue is a worthy issue for national discussion and I could not care less who is publicizing the event.
It seems you are the one taking a gratuitous swipe at Al and Jesse despite the fact they just happen to be doing the right thing here.
Posted Wednesday September 26, 2007 12:44:10 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by smittymatt16 in reply to open_mind
And what is that "right thing" they are doing down there?
Posted Wednesday September 26, 2007 9:55:00 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by open_mind in reply to smittymatt16
Calling attention to the double standards being applied to the two different groups of kids.
The white kids were originally to be expelled from the school - which seems appropriate for the lynching threat, but the principal was overruled by the school board and the superintendant.
When it comes to the black kids, it is argued that a shoe is a "deadly weapon" in that case. The problem seems to be that all commonsense has been lost. Going after the black kids overzealously (attempted murder charges?)and urging restraint in going after the white kids who played a big part here.
Posted Wednesday September 26, 2007 2:23:55 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by smittymatt16 in reply to open_mind
Calling attention to the double standards being applied to the two different groups of kids.
Where is the double standard? It is not a crime to hang a noose from a tree. I'm not trying to advocate that this is acceptable behavior, but it simply is not a crime. Will it stir up, trouble??...you bet it will, and those responsible for hanging the nooses were suspended. There is no double standard because you cannot equate hanging a noose from a tree to 6 kids attacking and assaulting a 1, whom had nothing to do with the noose hanging.
The white kids were originally to be expelled from the school - which seems appropriate for the lynching threat, but the principal was overruled by the school board and the superintendant.
They were overruled because do you really feel it was necessary to expel a kid from school for an entire year to have him get into more trouble, or do you send a message by suspending the boys so they know, and everyone else knows this will not be tolerated?
When it comes to the black kids, it is argued that a shoe is a "deadly weapon" in that case. The problem seems to be that all commonsense has been lost. Going after the black kids overzealously (attempted murder charges?)and urging restraint in going after the white kids who played a big part here.
The murder charge is no longer on the table, they are only being charged with assault. Again, I said this on another post, it's not uncommon for prosecutors to charge for more than what is necessary, and then commute charges or take them off the table after more facts arise. They obviously came to the conclusion that murder charges were not appropriate, and so they were lessened. I have this question for you......do you believe these were equal crimes?
Posted Thursday September 27, 2007 12:14:51 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by smittymatt16 in reply to open_mind
Calling attention to the double standards being applied to the two different groups of kids.
Where is the double standard? It is not a crime to hang a noose from a tree. I'm not trying to advocate that this is acceptable behavior, but it simply is not a crime. Will it stir up, trouble??...you bet it will, and those responsible for hanging the nooses were suspended. There is no double standard because you cannot equate hanging a noose from a tree to 6 kids attacking and assaulting a 1, whom had nothing to do with the noose hanging.
The white kids were originally to be expelled from the school - which seems appropriate for the lynching threat, but the principal was overruled by the school board and the superintendant.
They were overruled because do you really feel it was necessary to expel a kid from school for an entire year to have him get into more trouble, or do you send a message by suspending the boys so they know, and everyone else knows this will not be tolerated?
When it comes to the black kids, it is argued that a shoe is a "deadly weapon" in that case. The problem seems to be that all commonsense has been lost. Going after the black kids overzealously (attempted murder charges?)and urging restraint in going after the white kids who played a big part here.
The murder charge is no longer on the table, they are only being charged with assault. Again, I said this on another post, it's not uncommon for prosecutors to charge for more than what is necessary, and then commute charges or take them off the table after more facts arise. They obviously came to the conclusion that murder charges were not appropriate, and so they were lessened. I have this question for you......do you believe these were equal crimes? Also, do you believe the hanging of a noose was a crime?
Posted Thursday September 27, 2007 12:15:59 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by smittymatt16 in reply to smittymatt16
Sorry, didn't mean to post twice.
Posted Thursday September 27, 2007 12:16:39 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by wzwriter in reply to tommy
But I would never suggest that Martin Luther King, Jr. was an "incoming activist with an inflammatory agenda", so even sarcastically the comparison to today's "activists" is non-existant.
I don't know how old you are, Tommy, but I'm 54 and I remember when Dr. King was still alive. And that's exactly how the segregationists down South viewed Dr. King - when his "imflammatory agenda" was only equality and freedom. Why do you think the FBI had Dr. King under constant surveillance? Simple - people in high places (such as J. Edgar Hoover) saw Dr. King as a threat to the status quo.
If we ever needed someone like Dr. King, we need him now....
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 10:30:23 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by pbg in reply to tommy
Mychal Bell stood trial for attempted murder represented by a public defender who didn't call a single witness. He was convicted as an adult by a white judge and an all white jury.
Robert Bailey, one of the Six, was threatened by a young white man with a shotgun. He wrested the shotgun away from the man. Robert was charged with theft of a firearm.
No whites have been charged with anything.
If it weren't for outside agitators, they would have gotten away with all this.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 5:51:03 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by Kyle_Broflovski in reply to pbg
I'm not taking sides on this, but you left out some key facts:
Bell had 4 violent crimes on his juvenile record
No black jurors showed up for the jury selection process, although they were included on the jury call
Bell got a new attorney after the initial trial, who got an appeals judge to drop the convictions, because he should not have been tried as an adult (i.e. it wasn't due to 'outside agitators')
There are varying accounts of the shotgun incident.
Now, I'm not saying there's no racism in Jena. Clearly, when a sneaker can be re-classified as a lethal weapon, there's something fishy going on. However, I don't believe that the Jena 6 are heroes, either. They committed a crime (assault) and should pay the APPROPRIATE punishment. I believe that's why people are so worked up over it, because it doesn't appear that the punishment or characterization of the crime (attempted murder) was consistent with what actually happened.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:14:14 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by pbg in reply to Kyle_Broflovski
Bell had 4 violent crimes on his juvenile record
Put there by the same local justice system that put him on trial for attempted murder
No black jurors showed up for the jury selection process, although they were included on the jury call
And glory be! I wonder why that was?
Bell got a new attorney after the initial trial, who got an appeals judge to drop the convictions, because he should not have been tried as an adult (i.e. it wasn't due to 'outside agitators')
And where do you think they got the courage to gight--not to mention the resources--to fight a district attorney who publicly threatened them, 'with a stroke of the pen, I can make your lives disappear"?
There are varying accounts of the shotgun incident.
Ooooh, I am absolutely sure of that! And I'm sure that the white guys' version diverges from Robert's at many points!
You don't lnow how this works, do you, son?
Then again, maybe you do.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:32:35 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by solon in reply to tommy
That sounds familiar. Where have I heard this before? Oh yeah, its what Mississippi kept saying about Civil Rights workers
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 6:51:40 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by wzwriter in reply to JLyons
Just like it's always been, the racists ARE the problem - the whites that constantly try to hold blacks back.
By definition, blacks can't be racists because they don't have the power to hold whites back.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 10:25:18 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by snoopy
Yeah, just drive around with nooses hanging from the tail end of your truck. Garanteed to bring back racial harmony!
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 5:34:03 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by dfa4
His comment assumes that it wasn't the pressure of national attention that was the proximate cause of the changes to the charges and the removal of the offensive tree.
The Right is always so quick to create boogeymen rather than substantively address any issue. OK, so the Left can trot out "Rummy" and "Darth Vader" Cheney every once in a while too, but the list of Right Wing foes goes from ACLU to Z.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 5:34:27 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by johnny_nyc8351
Yeah, everything would be just peachy in Jena without those ol' outside agitators.
FYI, if you know anything about the Civil Rights Era then you know exactly what "outside agitators" is a a code phrase for.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 7:16:00 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by johnny_nyc8351
"KONDRACKE: I mean, this -- it looks as though the people of Jena can solve this on their own, but can Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson leave well enough alone? Oh, no."
Who is Kondrake to say what "well enough" is? "
Well enough for whom exactly. The viewers of Fox News?
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 7:20:47 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by jjamele2880
You know, Morton Kondracke's wife has Parkinson's disease. Kondracke has written a book about the disease and how it has impacted their lives. Kondracke has become a crusader for more government research money and action toward finding a cure for Parkinson's disease.
I wonder if anyone's every suggested that Kondracke and his wife can "handle this on their own."
My point is, it seems that the people of Jena have tried to "handle this on their own," and can't, because, what do you know, it's a little southern town where blacks aren't treated with the same respect under the law as whites are. So- and again, what do you know, the people of Jena are reaching out to the larger community for justice. Imagine that, Mr. Kondracke. A tragedy that requires more help than this community of people can deal with on it's own. Racism interfering with justice. A Hurricane. A crippling disease. Kondracke seems perfectly happy to call upon others to "solve their own problems" when it doesn't involve him personally. For the rest of us, we don't mind seeing justice done, even if it doesn't impact us personally.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 7:40:12 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by snoopy in reply to jjamele2880
I notice he was strangely absent from the debate about Rush's immitation and false statements of Michael J. Fox. Not a very respectable husband to not stand up for his wife and everyone else with parkinsons, unless he agrees with Rush?
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 8:29:13 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by wyn80us1764
No one even mentions that Mychal's mom had kicked him out of her house and a white football team members family took him in. He was so violent even his own mom couldn't stand him. And lots of members of the black community were glad he was put in jail because he was terrorising them.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 8:48:06 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by ufleirx
Bell had 4 violent crimes on his juvenile record
Put there by the same local justice system that put him on trial for attempted murder
No black jurors showed up for the jury selection process, although they were included on the jury call
And glory be! I wonder why that was?
Bell got a new attorney after the initial trial, who got an appeals judge to drop the convictions, because he should not have been tried as an adult (i.e. it wasn't due to 'outside agitators')
And where do you think they got the courage to gight--not to mention the resources--to fight a district attorney who publicly threatened them, 'with a stroke of the pen, I can make your lives disappear"?
There are varying accounts of the shotgun incident.
Ooooh, I am absolutely sure of that! And I'm sure that the white guys' version diverges from Robert's at many points!
You don't lnow how this works, do you, son?
Then again, maybe you do.
What is the garbage? None of us know, maybe Bell is a dangerous person. And maybe black jurors should have shown up if they thought "one of their own" was being railroaded when they were given that chance but maybe they did not think that Bell was being railroaded, maybe they know him. And of course, both sides have their version of the gun incident otherwise Bell would not have to have a trial -- guilty or not.
I remember this site ripped a bunch of white lacrose college students who were later vindicated and the commentators that defended them. I am assuming most of us were unhappy with the Vick episode but lots of people defended him. And if nothing else this "victim" was worked over pretty well. So my question is with all the general outrage for a crime that did not appear to happen, for a crime against animals, for the rights of the jerk that tortured those animals, where is the outrage over a white kid that was assaulted instead of his attackers? I got that it is all the man's fault that these black youths attacked him and that the kid was a jerk who said whatever he did. And yet we yell when "protestors" are attacked. This is pitiful because s you get to say your repugent trash its your right and his right. Yes someone maybe should beat you into the ground. And yes they should be held accountable -- even if I agree the guy who is beaten is a jerk. That is the law, that is justice. I could give a crap less about the race of the attacker. If they did it they are thugs, why make them seem special? He had his day in court, maybe he should have his appeal and retrial -- fair enough, but assuming the victim "had it coming" reeks of stupidity like those guys that assert a date rape victim was asking for it "cuz she had a short skirt and danced sexy." Great congratulations to everyone who defends this crap. If Bell is found not guilt then let me know and I'll recant. But it doesn't look like their saying he is innocent just he was unfairly punished. I say if he is a four time loser with a violent history then whatever. I wish good luck to his next victim whoever it is and it best not be a dog because then he is in real trouble.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 9:16:25 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by pearlene_scott1602 in reply to ufleirx
Then the leader of a white supremacist group in Mississippi published interviews that he conducted with the mayor of Jena and the white teenager who was attacked and beaten, allegedly by the six black youths. In those interviews, the mayor, Murphy McMillin, praised efforts by pro-white groups to organize counterdemonstrations; the teenager, Justin Barker, urged white readers to "realize what is going on, speak up and speak their mind."
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 9:52:49 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by snoopy in reply to ufleirx
So this probably falls in line with what you think, right?
Maybe you think this is OK too. After all, it's just a response to the idea that minorities get some kind of break...
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 10:00:29 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by pbg in reply to ufleirx
and MAYBE it is because the 15% black population of Jena has been living with the institutionalized racism that has been standard operating procedure since the 18th century--that the black citizens know better than to show up to be selected for a jury if they know what's good for them--and MAYBE a young black boy (16) has violent crimes on his record where a white kid who raises hell with a shotgun is just acting out of youthful exuberance--and MAYBE living in a community where black kids are not allowed to sit under a tree in the playground because they are black and get greeted with nooses when widespread lynchings are still within living memory--and MAYBE it's because they've been living in a town where every day, in a hundred ways little and not so little, they are being told that they have no power, and that their betters can bring that bullwhip down on their backs, that nothing at all has changed.
The difference with Jena is that they went after kids. Elsewhere in the South, were this to happen to a 20-year-old black man, he'd be serving a 22-year sentence and, funny, never getting parole, while people like Morton Kondracke would tsk tsk tsk about the crime statistics.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 12:46:23 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by ufleirx
Again, I am not saying these people are not absolute horse hindquarters. I am not saying the mayor isn't a waste of human skin. But no you don't get to attack people.
As for the Glen Beck Hitler Jesus thing. What? I am not getting it and Beck is well see the first paragraph of this post and chose a word. As for the Neo-Nazi threatening the Jena -- first you are a horse's backside for suggesting that I think they should be threatened -- if found guilty jailed absolutely in accordance to whatever sentence that is conferred. But that is a law enforcement issue if the threat is valid it was on the net and the feds can roll with it. If they get the guys that great and the freakin' law.
That's the point one law no matter who or how many show up to march for you. That's justice -- commit a crime go to jail or serve whatever.
Last and no I don't think most minorities -- excluding the odd entertainer or star get unrealistic breaks. Does not matter you don't get to attack people, period. If it was a black guy attacked by the neo-nazis you cite and someone said well he was running his mouth or attacked a white guy Snoopy and Pearl would be livid and they should be. Just don't put the attituse away because it does not suit your agenda.
And have either of you read any of my previous posts on the "race issue" I fall well to the left of center. But this issue while racially motivated is now and issue of law. If you wanted to protect you it has to protect everyone. Sorry folks it is grown up time deal with it.
Posted Monday September 24, 2007 11:59:15 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by pearlene_scott1602 in reply to ufleirx
The march in Jena was not only about race BUT justice under the law. Equal Justice Under the Law is the frame work for a civilized society. One white student hit another black student over the head with a beer bottle, he is charged with battery and given probation. One white student pulls a gun on black student and the black student who took the gun away (makes sense not to give it back) is charged with second degree robbery, theft of a firearm and disturbing the peace. A fight breaks out at school and 6 against one which are not fair odds but one black student is charged with attempted murder as an adult. A court overturned the convection as an adult however this 16 year old student has been held in adult prison since Dec. 2006. I notice that you have such outrage over the fight of the 6 boys but no such outrage over student hit over the head with a beer bottle nor for the student who had a gun pulled on him. Where is your outrage over the fact that the punishment for the student accused of hanging the 3 nooses was 3 days of IN-school suspension. Did hanging the noose represent a "prank" to you?
I will continue to ask for what is entitled to each and every one of us, Equal Protection Under the Law. The agenda for me is justice, equal justice, no more no less.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 12:44:38 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by ufleirx
Fair enough.
First, I say everyone should be charged no problem with that. I would say probably there are enough charges to go around.
However, it appears that at the Fair Barn incident the only arrest was a "white guy" who plead to simple battery -- that is the case you are referring to I believe. Pleas usually get you "reduced" sentences and maybe that is the reason for the more lenient sentencing or perhaps he did not HAVE A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE as Bell does. If he does - yes he should have gotten the same treatement since LA would allow for a similiar charge due to the use of a weapon in a battery.
The shotgun incident I am having some trouble reconciling this one. Rushing a person holding a shotgun -- I can't say I buy it maybe because I am in favor of escaping a shotgun blast. I would preferred multiple charges. Granted the DA is saying, "he went on the testimony of those not involved to decide charges." Of course, I am not on a first name basis with any of these people. But no I don't think the white kid should have got off without charges at least gun possession -- but if I remember LA law is pretty loose there so that might not be an option. In my state a crime related to a weapon can net you a healthy sentence so no I am not being easy.
Still you have a 16 YO with 4 violent crime convictions under his belt. Had he done time before, if not why? And were the nooses beyond what should be allowed absolutely. My outrage -- yes, it is there in my other posts. I called a good deal of the whites involved in the incidences by various colorful names. Still the FEDS did not feel they could prosecute and they are pretty good at getting conviction when they can -- so I am going to say not a crime, crappy but not a crime (I'd use other words but the site does not allow). Still according to one source, "Out of the 40-plus statements, including those from the black students and some of the students charged in the fight, none suggested that the Dec. 4 incident was imminently caused by the nooses, although many now are claiming that one could not have come without the other. There was no mention of the nooses at all in any of the statements, Washington said." Still yes the people who did this should be expelled.
Was Justin Barker one of them? No and he did not hit Bailey with the bottle. So these things while showing certain a disturbing trend in this backwater Southern town -- shocked I am not -- does not provide a defense.
What's this mean, you still don't get to commit a violent crime against another human. And if you have a criminal record with 4 counts of violence it is fair to assume -- especially if they are escalated in their level -- that you are a danger and should see real time. There was a juvenile that was tried as such -- I am guessing here as in most of the articles he is labelled as "unnamed juvenile" -- involved in the crime. He could still have a life. Maybe that says something about the nature of Bells charges and involvement. When you beat someone until they are unconscious and then continue you are trying to kill them. There is not reason to continue otherwise after they stop moving. So equal justice? Perhaps had Bell seen some time for his first offense he may not have committed this one. Maybe he would, don't know.
For the people of Jena -- black and white -- that feel they are in danger because of the violence. Yeah. For guys like Rubin Carter who spend lots of time in jail for crimes that they did not do? Certainly. But for this multiple violent offender. I am suppose to feel for the guy? Sorry no. Good riddance hopefully the good people -- whoever they are -- will sleep better. And if white kids do the same and especially if they have records I'd say the same.
Still have not heard your outrage at a 6 on 1 beating of a person to they are unconscious and beyond. Don't worry I won't ask again as I know it could ruin your street cred.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 2:10:30 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by pearlene_scott1602 in reply to ufleirx
Still have not heard your outrage at a 6 on 1 beating of a person to they are unconscious and beyond. Don't worry I won't ask again as I know it could ruin your street cred.
Does a 73 year old African American black woman get 'street cred"? I really don't need it.
While I don't condone the fighting 6 against 1 my understanding is they didn't simply jump on poor little Justine just because he was a white kid standing there. My understanding is he was taunting one of the boys (Bailey) about being hit over the head with the beer bottle. IMO you just have to be dumb to taunt a boy while he has 5 of his friends around. Maybe Justine would not have been involved in a fight if he had kept his mouth closed. That does not excuse the 6 to fight but they didn't simply attack Justine. As for the beating and beyond, Justine left the hospital that same day and attended a school event that evening.
I also noticed that you seem to gloss over the beer incident as if hitting someone over the head with a beer bottle is a harmless crime. Hitting someone over the head WITH a GLASS beer BOTTLE could cause serious harm but this young man gets probation and you seem to think that's appropriate which I do not. I think that when you hit anyone with a beer bottle IT IS A SERIOUS CRIME, first time or not.
When discussing the gun incident you seem again to pass it off as LA law but place no emphasis on the fact that this kid pulled a GUN!. You seem to put faith in the conclusion drawn by the DA and I don't. I would not trust ANY DA who assumed that hanging a noose is a harmless prank as this DA did. Hanging a noose is a threat of lynching NOT a prank!
The reason the Fed did not prosecute the noose for the hate crime that it was is due to the age of the students, not because they didn't feel it rose to a criminal level.
Jena 6 is about a fair and just system not simply race.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 2:44:26 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by wzwriter in reply to pearlene_scott1602
Does a 73 year old African American black woman get 'street cred"?
You've got "cred" here that others can only dream of, Pearlene. Thank you for bringing your perspective to these discussions.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 10:34:30 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by smittymatt16 in reply to wzwriter
You hit it right on the head man. I dream of "cred" all the time. One of my life's goals.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 2:53:45 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by open_mind in reply to smittymatt16
Keep dreaming.
: )
Posted Wednesday September 26, 2007 2:25:27 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by Sams Computer in reply to wzwriter
Hi ! - MRS SCOTT ...
You're my street wise hero! I wish I coulda and woulda said all that.
Many of these white kids have been beaten and damaged much more by their anti-black, anti-brown, anti yellow, anti-gay and anti-everything parenting.
I am among them. I was raised as a kid with a bunch anti-everything Texans. I'm still a Cowboys, Longhorns and Spurs fan, but I dropped racism long ago.
The kid was beaten. In more serious murder trials, when years and years of physical and mental abuse are evident, defendants have been freed of all charges. I know how many years the blacks in Jena, La. have been abused. I used to be one of their abusers.
Many of these white kids remind me of the disgusting racists I grew up with. I blame it on the parenting.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 6:34:43 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by eniobob2631
I wonder when the day will come that you will have 4or 5 black commentators sitting on a television set telling the world how whites think,feel,or should react to certain situations in their lives.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 7:26:52 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by monknj80
I have been trying not to comment on the Jena 6 thing because many on boht sides are getting it twisted.
This incidet should be about EQUAL justice and that alone.
The 6 guys were dead wrong to attack the boy, but there punishment was way overboard. They should absolutely be punished, but they should be held to the same standard as the rest of the community. Bell having priors should have been taken into accountand he was stupid for getting involved knowing that he had those priors. He should get a harsher punishment, but the local law enforcement is going way overboard.
It's not fair to label the entire town of Jena as racists. They may have some racist, but the issue is the the shool administration and the Local law enforcement has nt done a good job in representing the town at all. This whole thing could have been prevented if some of the adults sowed some leadership and did the right thing from the start.
I think some of the media attention was a good thing, but I am scared that the overexposure is going to make things worse. The town needed some pressure applied to do the right thing, but I think now the extreme fringes on both sides of the issue are going to come out.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 9:18:58 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by udorohmayen9019
I don't think Jena can handle this on their own because they don't see anything wrong with what they have done in the first place. My only comment is that One lady on CNN that quoted Matrin Luther King and asked to be judged by their character.
Characteristics of the people in Jena-
Hanging of noose
Riding by at night with nooses hanging from a truck
Confederate flags on their grass
Threats to these families
I think we are Judging by Jena's Character
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 11:21:56 AM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by fuq_the_aclu8951
Well, the way I see it, a few black kids got a lot of attention for beating up on a white kid. This outright disrespect for a person of another color should be classified as a "Hate Crime". However, it seems that the left is still preoccupied with trying to make up for what happened before the civil war by punishing the heterosexual white male every chance they can get. It was those very same deviled white men that built this country to begin with and gave these racially-obsessed blacks a right to say anything at all.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 12:52:55 PM EDT / Flag this comment
Posted by open_mind in reply to fuq_the_aclu8951
Thanks for giving the KKK's side of the story.
Posted Tuesday September 25, 2007 11:00:20 PM EDT / Flag this comment